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Previously, I have posted about loading brass shot shells and this post will speak to my opinions on same. I have been using Hammer Double and RMC brass 16 Ga. shot shell hunting loads in modern shotguns for almost a year. As some of you know Hammer Double, the producer/modifier of Mag Tech brass hulls is no longer in business. During very cold weather both hull types have a common problem and that is the glued in overshot cards can and will fall out sending the shot down the barrel. I think that I have fixed the problem by cleaning the inside of the hull near the top with carburator cleaner and fixing the osc with ducco cement, My last few outing the cards have stayed in place with temps ranging from 20 to just below freezing.
Hammer Double brass has one fault and that is the base wad can fall out and lodge in the barrel. I noticed the base wad had fallen out and was in the bottom of my shell box. The fix is to place the Hammer Double shell in a “V” block and dimple the case in four equally spaced places just above the inner wad.
A problem with the RMC brass hulls is that they are difficult to reloaded on a press. Instead, hand tools such as the Lee Loader work very good.
Most of the hunting loads that I have patterned are from data that Tom Armbruster supplied for Hammer Double and two loads that Tom gave me for RMC loads via the telephone. The data are for 1 and 1 1/8 oz loads using Unique, Herco, IMR 4756 and IMR’s Trail Boss. All patterned good and with the IMR 4756 and IMR Trail Boss patterning beautiful. I have also tried a variety of loads using one piece wads in the RMC hulls with good success.
While the loading of brass hulls requires a little more time and attention to detail than loading paper or plastic hull, I enjoy the process and often in the evening I load those shells that I shot that day.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 601 Location: Virginia

You might want to try using waterglass (Sodium silicate) rather than glue. I use a brush and paint a good layer on top of the overshot card. After it dries, I give it another coat. Never had a card come loose with this system.

Dan

I too shoot & reload brass shell's in my 16's.

I have 50 Hammer Double Shells, 10 RMC, and 75 Magtech's.

I had some base wads fall out of the HD shells. I called Roger at HD and he told me to re-set the B/W with a 1/2" deep socket and several raps w/ a plastic mallet. He was not alarmed that they would get stuck in the barrel, as the back pressure would prevent this from happening. I lost several that fell out on the ground and were lost. Also, as you experienced they were in the bottom of the container. I found a replacement for the ones I lost. A Winchester 16 SuperX wad fits very well and again is positioned & set with the 1/2" deep socket method. I have destroyed several Super X 16 for the B/W.

I use a Lee loader also for rolling the mouth edge of the Magtech shells. I use the sizing/load die and hold it in a vise. I lube the front of the shell and gently, with a plastic mallet drive it in the die. The top of the die has the roll taper machined in the die. I only roll enough of the mouth so I can insert the wads and cards with a slight thumb pressure, side-ways.
I have used a combination of tools to reload, a couple I have made.

Last Week I ordered and received the MEC conversion for my 600 Jr 16 reloader. This is for the Magtech shells that use the large pistol primers.
I use the Magtech's for my Winchester 97/16 that I use for Cowboy Action.
The MEC conversion is made for 12 ga. However it is small enough that it can be used for 16 too. This is not a catalog item with MEC.
For those interested Call Dave Kern 920-387-4500 , Ext. 6449
This allows for de-caping and priming with the 600 Jr.
The conversion consists of a new de-caping punch with the Large pin installed in the end and held with a set screw. and a priming cup and setting for Large pistol primers.
The cost of the conversion adaptor kit is $35.00 + shipping & handling.

After spending quite a bit of time on case prep with the Magtech shells I can appreciate The Hammer Double shells. The Magtech shells are rough and need a lot of case prep. The primer pockets are not the same siize shell to shell some were so tight I could hardly prime them, some distored the primers. I bought a Lyman primer pocket reamer tool, and by hand reamed ever one of the 75 cases. Then because they were straight mouthed, I used the Lee loader and preped the the mouth roll on each case.
The mouth roll is necessary for my style of loading the brass shells.My column length is in total, 1/8" below the case mouth when The OSC is installed and set over the shot. I then use Elmers Glue and fill the mouth void and the glue is convexed, or domed above the case mouth, almost to the point where it over-flows but not quite. As the Elmers dries, it concaves in the mouth below the taper roll and seals the package. I discussed this with Roger at Hammer Double and we both agreed this hold the package in the brass shell, such as a OSC and roll crimp does in a plastic or paper shell.
When the glue dries,(here in Arizona about three to four days) it sets-up and resembles a dried wax plug. This plug is hard and no deposit of glue is in the barrel after the shell is fired.
In CAS I may shoot close to two boxes of shell in a Saturday Match. Sunday Morning the case's go in the brass tumble, and they are ready to be loaded Monday for the following Week-end.
I use the brass shells for Cowboy Action use the most, but have a couple of hunting loads developed that I use.
My loading is all with Smokless powder. Most Cowboy shooters use Black Powder in the Magtech shells, I refuse to use that dirty stuff in my
Guns. Wink

Brass shell reloading, takes time. I am Retired and this is part of my Hobby. Reloading is very rewarding, and is even more so with the brass shell. When I pull those loaded brass shell, I get alot of Oh's & Ah's form the other shooters.
One of these days, I will post Pix's and the whole sequence of loading operation for brass shells.

DanLee.
I special ordered Water Glass 10 months ago and I used it for the first time yesterday and applied it to ten shells using an eye dropper. Today, I went pheasant hunting and the OSCs stayed in place.
Lefty Dude,
So far only one base wad has fallen out and I was able to retain the wad. I don’t think that the problem will reoccur because of the 4 equally spaced dimples that each shell received just above the wad. I’ll remember the Winchester Super X wad and the 1/2” deep well socket fix in the event that I lose another one.
I also have tried Elmer’s Glue, but my dried wax plugs were thin and dried overnight.
I don’t have any Mag Tech cases, just 25 Hammer Double and 25 Rocky Mountain cartridge cases. I also have 25 28 gauge brass cases from RMC and I’m currently trying different loads.
My brass loads are for hunting and I now use nickel plated shot in #7, #6, and #5 1/2. Initially, my friends were in awe, but now they just shake their heads. Two of my buddies have recently started reloading and another guy has been showing some interest. I may make a few converts to brass, only time will tell.

You need a tight seal on the front-end, upon recoil and the firing of one barrel in the double it will loosen the shot package and possibly the OSC. Not good when the shot rolls out the unfired barrel. Crying or Very sad

By using Brass shells you are able to more closely tailor a load than with plastic shells. Wink

This is my experience with Brass hulls.
Wads, I use 1/2 inch soft white felt, lubricated,because the hulls are thin walled they are realy meant for chamberless guns so the wad has to squash down easily. If you dont lubricate, expect to lose about 100fps velocity.
sealant, there is only one that i have found suitable and that is silicon bath sealant, 1/4 inch fillet, any less and again you lose velocity.
With silicon sealant I have never even nearly had a shell come undone.
Regards,
muzz

Lefty Dude,
I also put the fired hulls in a tumbler- got to keep them shiny. Yep, a tight seal is a good thing, I wish that had some way of measuring the whole load. After cleaning the hull mouth lightly with #150 grit sandpaper and wiping with a carb cleaner soaked rag, I have not had an OSC fall out.
Muzz,
What brand hull are you loading? To lube or not to lube, that is the question? You make a good point re velocity. Even though the loads (no lube) that I pattern and subsequently use are published loads from reliable sources, I have not a clue as to their actual velocity or pressure. Seems to me that a chronograph might be a source of enlightenment. The cushion wads that I use are made by Alcan and Federal and both brands are described as hard waxed wads. I have some wads from Circle Fly that I have used and these are much softer and don’t claim to be waxed. Functionally, I can’t tell the difference between the different brands of cushion wads.
Most people would be happy that the loads go bang birds drop and targets break.

I have developed a way of using plastic wads and not compressing them. I use a Cheddite wad from Grafs. The Cheddite is the largest diameter wad I know of for the 16. The Winchester/Cheddite hulls have a thinner side wall than the RGL Blacks or the Federal Purples. The plastic wad takes up space in the large brass hull. I charge the case with powder, then insert a 14 ga. 1/8" OPW, then a 3/8" 14 ga. fiber wad cut down with a razor knife from a 1/2" wad. The plastic wad goes in next, not compressed. And on top of the shot a 13 ga OSC. All wads a Circle Fly.
Using the plastic wads on top of the fiber wad I want a tight seal so a lubed fiber is uncessary.

Craig, at Circle fly will supply the fiber wads lubed if you want them that way.

My loads are not hot hunting loads, I would say a light target load. I'am heading to the range this afternoon with the 97/16 and shooting 5 brass shells over my Chronograph and will report the results this evening and the load receipe, for those interested. After that I will do a pattern test in a few Weeks.

jschultz,
The hulls I use are Magtech.
I have put them through a chrono. and the difference between lubed and unlubed is around 100fps
muzz

Muzz, I'll try to get mine chronographed.
Today, should be a good test for Ducco vs Water Glass because I'm going pheasant hunting and the temps will not be much over 20 deg. f.

My pheasant hunt was productive and the new methods to keep OSC’s & shot in place seems to have worked. I brought along three hulls that didn’t receive a mouth cleaning and ten hulls that did. Five of the hulls had Water glass seals and five had Ducco cement seals. The temps were between 17 and 20 deg. f. and one of the hulls using the original process with Ducco cement failed. Cleaning hull mouths appear to be the answer. Thank you one and all for your posts.

Hey, You know what that kind of weather will do to the brass monkey Shocked

I have been using duco glue for years. But, our weather is nothing like yours. If it got that cold in the desert; us desert rats would all die off. Good luck.