16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 207

I caught the waterfowl bug this year, when a buddy took me duck hunting over on the Mississippi by Stoddard. Have just hunted upland since I was a kid....I never did like to clean ducks so I didn't hunt them. Well, that all changed this winter.

I used a 12 gauge for the hunt on the Big Muddy, but I'd like to use my 16 ga A5, M37, and Lefever Nitro Special next fall. Both the A5 and M37 have Polychokes.

Can anybody give me easy steps to setting up for waterfowl? I have a Mec Jr. Mark V. Specifically:

A) Where should I buy my Non-tox shot, and which shot and why?
B) What load would you use? I have several different types of hulls, mostly the red Winchester X hulls.

Any and all help appreciated. 8mmFan

Guest

Unless you're shooting over decoying birds and keeping most of your shots under 30-35 yards, I'm not a fan of using a 16 gauge for non-tox.

Basically your two non-tox options are either steel and Bismuth/Nice/TM. If you use the latter, it will cost you $1-3 per shell. I don't know about your own pocket book but that's a little pricey for waterfowl for my own situation. I use that stuff for upland non-tox shooting since I shoot so few of rounds. IMO, the slowest that you can get away with shooting steel is 1450 fps. It just seems when you shoot anything slower and the range increases just a bit, your round changes from a duck killer to duck crippler. I shoot a 3" 12 gauge steel 1 1/8 oz handload at 1500 fps which drops them consistently to 40 yards. The problem with the 16 gauge is the 2 3/4" shell has a limited capacity for powder and shot payload. You can check some steel receipes the 16 gauge but most rounds are too slow for my needs.

Good luck...

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

What Terry said is pretty accurate.
Although I have shot teal with the 16ga, and it works great, but shooting small relatively easy decoying close birds. But if teal hunting and using nice shot or TM, you better have your act together or it could get expensive.

I have loaded some hevi-shot too, but don't know if that is option in the guns you described. Commercial 16ga steel loads stink, and they stink bad.

If you really want to shoot ducks with a 16ga, load the nice shot, or hevi-shot, or buy the TM. Just know your limits, and avoid the temptation of taking a shot that is out of the "16ga" realm. Choose your shots, get 'em in close and shoot them in the lips!!

I use a 10ga for alot of duck hunting. One, you just don't know what you are going to get on any given day. I hunt a lot of marsh/wetlands many times out of a one man sneak boat, don't sit in a blind. So, I don't always know what the conditions are going to be until they happen. Hate to drag the 16 out there to find out I brought wrong gun.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

I agree with the above posts, and would just add that it depends on exactly what type of duck hunting you are doing. I wouldn't make a habit of pass shooting at 40+ yards with a 16 ga. and I wouldn't use 16 ga. steel....it's awful and in my experience too, it's a crippler. I do use the Bismuth loads--1 1/8 oz. of #6 and #4 shot when we could get those-- that I bought several years ago (they were still expensive!!)

But the great majority of my ducking is jump shooting irrigation ditches, woody creeks and drainage ditches in farm fields and around creeks bordered by continuous filter strips in corn/soybean country. Most of my shots are from 10 yards to 30-35 yards max. I have a good dog that can retrieve most all of what I shoot. Point is, if the shots are that close, the 16 works fine. If I were on big water or shooting a "far piece" I'd use a 12.

Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 207

Well, sometimes in life you just have to learn from the experience of others, and I think in this case I will do just that. It isn't like I don't have a good 12 gauge option. I'll use that, and save my 16ers for grousing with lead.

Thanks for the good advice, guys. I really do appreciate it. If I had a 3-inch 16 gauge, I might push it a little. But I don't.

Thanks again. 8mmFan.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

No need to throw in the towel completely. If you get a good set up and know what you are shooting, and if that situation looks good for the 16 then use it. Like I said, it is a teal hammer. For all the same reasons people use the 16 for upland birds. My brother uses his 20ga on teal.

I work with a guy who now has his Dad's Model 12 in 16ga, and that is the only shotgun the guy owned. He lived on the Platte River. He shot a mountain of ducks with that gun. Now alot of that was in the "lead" days, but still, you can get lead performance out of hevi-shot, TM and nice shot for certain. Its just expensive.

Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 207

Hootch (or anyone else), do you know a good place to buy non-tox (not steel) shot? Where is everyone buying their non-tox shot? 8mmFan

*Last edited by Birdawg on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I guess I am confused. How can 1 1/8 ounce of steel be a good round from a 12 gauge but 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz of heavier than lead or near that be a poor load from a 16?
Sure steel sucks in a 16 just like it does in a 12 but there are other alternatives. Yes it is somewhat more expensive but just how many round do you use waterfowling each year?

You might want to give these a look.
http://www.ecotungsten.com/online-store.html
http://www.rstshells.com/shells.htm
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=370

Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 207

Thanks, Birddawg. That at least gives me a place to start....

Le'seee.....that ITX shot is listed at $129 per 7 lb. bag.

25/7 = 3.57 bags of ITX shot to equal a 25 pound bag of shot....

So, 3.57 bags x $129 = $460.71 for 25 pounds of the ITX. OUCH!!!

Who were the politicians/bureaucrats that outlawed lead in the marsh?!!! Evil or Very Mad

This needs to be revisited. Absolutely G%$#@^n ridiculous! 8mmFan

*Last edited by Birdawg on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total*

You are correct. The sad thing is we will see a total lead ban sooner than we think.

So at $50 bucks a bag for steel the cost of non steel is an extra $410 for 400 1 ounce loads that will do better than steel.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

As above, I ordered the Nice Shot from ecotungsten. Expensive, but I use it in my 2.5" parker when I need to. So I don't throw hundreds and thousands of rounds through it.

I buy hevi-shot, although have never been quite satisfied with any of my loads for it yet. Patterns are ok, but with some of the component combos, have yet to find the "one" that is easiest to load, crimp etc. Shop around for Hevi-shot, Natchez sometimes has sales, Bucksrun Supply is another place I have bought HS and Steel (he has #5 steel, my favorite for ducks)
BPI carries HS as well as do several other places.

Haven't tried the ITX yet, I am sure it is close to the Nice shot, this year should be available in smaller shot sizes.

Bismuth is a lack luster performer in my opinion and I do not use it.

I think we shall start seeing some lead bans especially under the incoming administration. It is how the anti-gunners and anti-hunters will come at us.
They will do it under the guise of "environmental" issue but the real agenda is to eliminate hunters and shooters. Our ranks dwindle each year, and going to an all lead ban will start the avalanche.

I wish Hevi-steel was avaialable as a loading component. Better than steel, cheaper than Tungsten, and performance is in the middle too. But would run into some of the same issues as steel in the 16.

I use the Kent TM 1 1/16 oz #5 shot it works great. We hunt tight swamps and Beaver ponds mostlly and shots are 35 yards and in. I have used the same loads for divers on Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence river I tighten up the choke and kill ducks as dead as with my 12 and steel. You just have to pick your shots and conserve ammo. I only shoot maybe 8-10 box's of it a year. If I can't kill 3 to 6 ducks with a box then I wasn't picking my shots to well. A couple times a year I shoot decoyed Geese with the load it works fine just shoot'em in the white cheek patch.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

I have two 16 gauge Remington Model 11's with improved cylinder and modified chokes that work fine on waterfowl with 1-1/4oz of tungsten matrix 5's. With the exception of perhaps really large shot (#1 or bigger) I agree with the assessment that if a particular load of shot works in a 12 gauge it should work fine in a 16 also. You should always choose your load/shot size based on your quarry. There are exceptions of course; I've killed geese instantly at thiry five yards with #5 TM when hunting ducks, but I used a substantial lead which resulted in a killing head shot. However, I would have started with #2s if I was hunting geese in a cornfield.

I don't take shots more than 40 yards with any gauge (I'm not a good enough shot) and don't use steel shot. As a result I use less ammo and have a lower shots/kills ratio. Premium non-toxic ammo is more expensive than steel, but it's still less than 1/2 the cost of gas to drive to hunting locations for a season or even breakfast at the diner after a morning hunt and well worth the price. One of my hunting partners refuses to pay more than the cost of steel and routinely uses twice the number of shells as I during a hunt and still loses more birds to crippling (although he does keep his retriever busy).

The pheasant hunting around here is either crowded public ground or expensive private shoots (both with planted/released birds) and you'd have to drive 2-3 hours to find grouse or woodcock, but the waterfowl hunting is good enough that we limit out (or come close) occasionally. The 16 gauge is well suited for the mallards, wood ducks, teal and widgeon where I hunt so unless I am hunting big sea ducks or pass shooting geese I plan to use my #5 Nice Shot reloads for my 16's and continue to scare the hell out of the waterfowl.

My wife and I have been shooting 16’s for everything from doves to geese for years now, and have found them to do just fine. We have 20’s and 12’s also, but the 16’s are what we prefer. Since I reload and do not like picking up shells, it is either a SXS or O/U for me. My wife prefers her Browning Citori White Lightening O/U, as it fits her very well, and she is quite deadly with it.
Most years we only put four or less boxes through them per year while hunting, so we stick to the heavier shot-HeviShot, Nice Shot, or Bismuth, as it costs more for gas, food, clothing, dogs, dog food and the like than the shells do. I do not feed poor quality food to my dogs, so why would I settle for less with my shotgun?
We were hunting geese with HeviShot last year and there was a crippled Canadian swimming away that was a good 60 yards out that one of the dogs was going after. I loaded up with 1 3/8 oz. load of #2 HeviShot in the 16 ga that had IC/Mod chokes in it (Browning Citori Superlight) and everyone in the group (shooting steel) thought it was a waste of shells to try and stop the goose as it was out so far. Granted it took two shots to stop it (I was short on the first one) but needless to say everyone was very impressed. I have done that before, so knew it would stop it if I did my job.
We have caught crap for having ‘fancy’ guns almost every year we hunt, even though my ‘go to’ shotgun has been a Model 24! How funny is that!
My wife and I are always saying to each other “look at the head, look at the head!” We practice that all year long whenever birds fly by. Look them in the eyeball!
I write all of this to say if you hit what you are shooting at a 16 gauge works good. Go to the range and practice, practice, practice. Confidence in your shooting skill kills more birds than ‘the right choke’ or ‘the right gauge gun’.