16ga.com ~ View topic - 1 oz wad for 16 ga straight walled hulls?

Member Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Michigan

Does anyone know of a plastic wad/shotcup made for straight walled hulls, like Fiocchi, that will completely hold 1 oz of shot? I have tried the BP SG-16 and Trap Commander and they do not hold 1 oz of shot. The TC will hold more shot than the SG-16, but will not hold 1 oz of shot.

Keith Rich

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

The CH1628 (cheddite wad) holds 1 oz of shot level at the top of the wad. However, when I loaded them, I needed a real bulky powder to fill the shell, plus some extra lead. (To make a good crimp, I needed to load 1 1/8 oz, not 1 oz shot.)

see this thread: http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6682

That wad might work good as a 1oz wad if you were loading 2 1/2" loads.

I'd call Claybuster 1-800 and request a 25 count sample bag of their new WW16AA clone. The wad cup is roomy enough for at least 1 ounce of shot. the wad is also definately long enough OAL to fill any polyformed 16 ga case as well. The Wad base is also flaired to seal straight walled cases better as well. Good luck.

Member Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Michigan

16 ga guy - that's the best news that I have heard yet! I will give Claybuster a call - thanks.

Keith

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Keith_Rich,
Ed Matunas' book Reloading for Shotgunners notes that the shot column compresses significantly inside the shotcup upon ignition, and that the shotcup may not contain all the shot before firing, but will as it travels down the barrel. This could be the case with the BP SG16, which is intended to be a 1 oz wad, even though the nominal shotcup capacity is 3/4 oz. I don't know how one would verify this other than evidence (or lack thereof) of lead deposits in the barrel.

Brewster

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

...or one could recover a wad from downrange and inspect the pellet pattern on it...

Member Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Michigan

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

The only wads I know that are designed to fully contain the shot in a given load are some trap and/or field wads designed to fully contain the shot until it leaves the barrel and, therefore, provide tight patterns and wads for steel and tungsten (i.e. harder than barrel) shot which are designed to protect the barrel from "scrubbing" by the hard shot. I have loaded thousands of BP SPG16 wads with 1 oz of shot that always extends past the top of the shot cup into Federal, Remington and Fiocchi hulls without any problems. The Fiocchi hull should probably have a filler at the bottom or top of the shot (your choice) to give a really good crimp due to relatively large hull capacity and the Remington crimp will bulge occasionally due to the relatively small hull capacity, but the fact that 1oz of shot extends above the SPG 16 shot cup when loaded has no ill affect on the loads or the gun.

A filler wad can also be placed under the wad base of a shorter than desirable wad. This will help conserve whatever protection a short wad cup lends to the shot.

Bore scrubbed, out of round shot is detrimental to any pattern. It flies eccentrically and disturbs the rest of the column. So I respectfully disagree that overly short shot cups do not cause problems. Of coarse for close range shooting with heavier shot loads, it is not that big of a problem. However, for the lighter, more square, better patterning shot loads at the far end of their useful range, I want as much protection of the shot as I can get. Adequate shot cup depth provides what I need. A bit extra can't hurt either.

Member Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Michigan

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

I thought that it was desirable to have a small amount of shot outside the wad column so that upon firing the shot pushes your crimp open from the center, instead of the petals contacting the outside of your crimp first, and thereby either damaging your petals, or forcing your crimp open from the outside of the crimp first.

Is this a misconception of mine?

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

I've used the claybuster wad in the Federal hull with green dot, no problems.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

Bowbuilder and 16gaugeguy are both correct. No shotcup or wad will prevent some lead shot from deforming during setback and in transit down the barrel when it is squeezed by both the forcing cone and choke (if any). Only harder than barrel steel shot like Hevi Shot will not deform during firing. Even more curious is the fact that although Hevi Shot is not really even close to round/spherical, it still gives dense patterns out to 50+ yards. At the same time, 16gaugeguy's argument that deformed lead shot tends to fly erratically is irrefutable.

For what it is worth, the 16 gauge reloading manual from Ballistic Products states that a crimp opened up by the top of the shot cup is a common source of hull separation from the base;" A shell's crimp must open up through upward pressure exerted by the shot column (concentrated from the center outward). " The discussion goes on to say that heavier field wads will exaggerate this (hull separation) problem.

The manual continues "The reloader must use a cork or felt filler wads under the shot (used to raise the shot column height to the proper height) in order to bring the shot column height level or even slightly higher than the leading edge of the wad. Setback will force the shot column back into the shotcup during transition through the barrel."

The manual states further "In general lead shot target wads will rarely cause hull spearations because the plastic from which target wads are made is very soft and the petals generally thinner. Additionally target wad payloads are small and the height of the shotcup is usually shorter than the amount of shot dropped."

It would appear that we are all correct in this instance. It doesn't really matter where the shot ends in relation to a target wad. If you want more target shot protection you need to use less shot, less choke, find a wad with a deeper shotcup or any combination of those three. Considering that 5-10 pellets out of 400 #8 lead shot in a 1oz load will break a clay bird, I don't mind a few flyers when target shooting.

On the other hand, since there are only about 165 #5 pellets in a 1oz lead load, it might pay off to carefully size your payload to just above or level with the shotcup which will better protect the shot and give you a better chance of mulitple pellet strikes on that late season rooster going away.

The modern one piece plastic wad with an adequate shot cup is probably the single most important advancement in shotgunning in the 20th century. I realize that is a strong statement. However, the plastic wad has revolutionized small bore hunting loads as well as making smaller shot loads more effective out of any gauge.

Consider the 1-1/4 ounce 16 ga load. The shot cup does two things to help a heavy load of big pellets like the #4 pattern effectively out of a 16 beyond 37 to 38 yards where they work the best for bigger birds like pheasant.

The first factor at work is how the shot cup enlongates the shot column a bit. Longer, narrower columns of big pellets flow through a tighter choke better than a fatter column will. We also need less choke to obtain better long range patterns with big pellets. Less choke means less pellet deformation as well. So it is a win win. The longer shot columns string out better and the pellets are less apt to collide and change their flight path outside the bore. So the pattern holds together and spreads more slowly. The pellets at the tail end will lose more velocity and energy, but they are heavier to begin with so they have more inertia and will hit harder further out anyway. This factor is the biggest reason why heavier 28 and .410 hunting loads of bigger pellets like #6 shot in the 28 or 7.5 shot in the .410 are so much more effective today. Of course, this factor has a positive effect on all gauges.

The second factor at work is how the wad cup protects the longer outside layer of shot in the longer column. Rounder shot flies truer. Less shot leaves the pattern prematurely due to an eccentric flight path causd by being scrubbed out of round. This effect sweetens the pattern with more density, but does not necessarily affect how fast it opens.

On the other end of the spectrum, an adequate shot cup helps a subgauge weight shot load of smaller pellets work more effectively by helping conserve the roundness of the pellets in the pattern. This is why a 3/4 ounce load of smaller shot out of a 16 will do about the same amount of work as a 1 ounce load without a shot cup. The success and effectiveness of the 7/8 ounce or 24 gram 12 gauge target load is proof enough. This adds up to less recoil and better shooting.

The plastic one piece wad improves the patterning and effectiveness of any reasonable load out of any gauge. It makes the smallest of the gauges more viable hunting tools within reasonable parameters and has enlarged those parameters as well. I'm betting that the 16 ga would not have made such a strong comeback as it has without the one piece plastic wad to help it along.

Taking big pheasant out at 40 plus yards with a 16 is commonplace today. This was not always so. Pheasant hunting was once considered mostly 12 gauge territiory. 16 gauge guns were for grouse and quail. Not anymore thanks to the one piece plastic wad and shotcup.