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Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

I'm not an authority on fliers, but I always understood them to be deformed shot. This deformation of bb's can occur as the shot is forced into the forcing cone. This is why longer forcing cones appear to be the thing of the future because, not only do they reduce the amount of deformation of pellets by allowing a smoother more unrestricted flow of shot through the forcing cone, but they also reduce felt recoil.

I once had a 16 Ga. LeFever that kicked like a mule. I sent it to Briley, had them lengthen the forcing cones and I can honestly say I had at least a 20% reduction in felt recoil.

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KDan I agree with you on how/why we get fliers but my question to Brewester is how he determined he was getting fliers and his reason to believe that he was getting an excessive number of fliers.

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Without the distance and actual numbers there is no way to know how help this fellow out.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

To solve your problem shoot a 21-23 Gram load and work the 20" Core like were all supposed to and as ole Mick Dundee says ( no worrys mate ) .

Regards Charles

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Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

I did a pellet count on the paper and came up with 330. Either there are whole lot off pellets WAAY off the paper or my MEC throws a short ounce, or both. Going to shoot some more patterns on larger paper AND do a pellet count out of the MEC.

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What size shot are you using and what distance are you shooting your patterns at?

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Two points here. first, all shotgun patterns are three dimensional and involve the fourth dimension--time. The target must pass through or be enveloped by the shot column or string. The diameter, the relative density, and the length of the column at the time it envelopes the target are all factors.

The second point is about point of impact or placement of the column. I'd check my gun's POI with this load. I do so as part of evaluating any shot load I use for target shooting. you'd be surprized how some loads will change the point of impact of your gun, especially if you are changing the shot load weight or the velocity by a significant amount. If the load is showing some promise on the pattern board with nice shot distribution in a well developed core, then check the gun's POI with that load. I'm assumiong your trap gun has an adjustable stock. If not, have one installed. It makes setting your trap gun up fairly easy.

To do this POI test, you need to shoot a fair number of shots at a straightaway target set at a moderate height like the 10 foot elevation mark at 16 yards in front of the trap. 100 rounds is a good number here. More is better yet. Do the test on a dead calm time of day. Use the fullest choke you can. Have an assistant carefully watch the breaks. You will soon note whether the targets are being well centered in the core or if you are topping them or chipping off the bottom or the sides of the target. If the load is hitting the targets consistantly, even if the hits are chippy, adjust the gun's initial POI for correction until the load is now hitting the targets consistantly. If the hits remain chippy, scrap the load. Most likely, the shot column is too long and strung out. Good target loads have a relatively short shot string or column. If the hits become consistantly good as the POI is adjusted, then continue. Next, adjust your gun's POI a bit at a time until the core of the pattern moves off the target. Note just where that happens in the process. Reverse the adjustments until the core moves off the target in the opposite direction. Note it. Then set the adjustment dead between these two points. Do this both for elevation and for left/right adjustments. You are now dead center in the sweet spot of the core for that load if the test is done properly. You can fine tune your gun's POI a bit from here to adjust things for your over all shooting form and style to allow for both straightaway, and hard left or right presentations. Some folks like the gun to hit a bit high on a straightaway target to help compensate for the tendency to shoot a bit flatter at hard angle targets. Some folks shoot just the opposite. However, knowing just where your gun and you put the sweet spot of the core is of prime importance to consistant trap shooting. Good luck.

Part of the above post is from an old post of mine involving POI and target loads. I'm including the additional info to give you an idea of some of the dynamics that might be at work here. Even in hunting guns, some loads will hit closer to the gun's POI than others. For most hunting loads, close is usually good enough. However, be aware that a long shot string is less effective that a compact one--on targets and on birds. Evaluating the shot string effectiveness can only be done by shooting at a flying object with a round that centers the target well. Loads or guns that aren't hitting the target with the core regularly will confound your results regardless of how good the load might be.

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