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old16
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:03 am  Reply with quote
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Larry Brown wrote:
I think the last sxs 16's Beretta made were those in the 409 (essentially same gun as the old Silver Hawk) series, and they stopped making them in the late 60's. Check that . . . they did make the GR series guns (68-76 or so) in 16ga, but the only GR 16 I've ever seen had sling swivels, etc, no importer's name on the gun, so my guess is it was acquired overseas. Doubt we'll ever see a Beretta 16ga sxs. Not sure I have ever seen a Beretta 16ga OU, although I'd be willing to bet they did make them for the European market.

I have what you are describing. I shoot it alot at the skeet range. I hated the swivels sot I took them off. When I aquired the gun it had a broken stock so I replaced it with a semi finish piece. I keep the cheek piece caused I like it. It gives it a little style. You know how them europeans are. I had to open up the left barrel choke some it seemed a little tight. I average in the 20's low gun at the skeet range. Bill

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old16
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:12 am  Reply with quote
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Sure seems to me that they could put a set of 16 barrels on the 20ga galazan with very little cost overun then they would have something. Bill

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KyBrad16ga
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:16 am  Reply with quote
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MGF wrote:
KyBrad16ga,
Got a link to that Shot Show report?
Tried a search, but am getting back an ungodly large number of results to sift through.
Thanks.
Mark


No problem Mark -

Here you go, 3 pretty good threads on the shot show and Berettas. To give you a little background, 16ga. our esteemed albeit anonymous moderator went to the SHOT show talking to various manufacturers and also brdhnt (who is actually Terry Boyer of Shotgun Sports and Upland Almanac magazines), and one of our posters went there with a list of questions that he had compiled from the forum and on his own to ask various manufacturers. These threads were their reports...

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=835&highlight=shot+show

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=851&highlight=shot+show

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=796&highlight=shot+show


Some really interesting stuff here in addition to the Beretta question. I still haven't seen that 16 gauge Kimber Valier that Terry raves about.

Hope this satistisfies your curiousity. Although you know its about time for a follow up to see if these manufacturers are getting close with any of these products that they have promised yet. Come on get them out into the stores so we can see some of this stuff...

Cheers,

Brad
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MGF
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:40 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks, Brad, that was some informative reading.
Sigh. I still want a 686/7 in 16. You'd think it wouldn't be enormously hard for 'em to try a run on a 20 ga. frame (the 686 in 20 is lively handler), but I guess it just isn't going to happen.
May have to eventually look into a 470 or 471 if they come out in 16. My bro's got a 471 with 26" tubes in 12 ga, and it is a lovely gun ... sportscar quick, though ... almost too fast for me.
For me, it would take a lot of shells to get used to switching from 0/U to a SxS. Heck, it's taken me 10 years and a goodly number of shells to become less than embarrassing with my O/Us. Embarassed
Guess I'll just have to keep makin' empties!
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rayb
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:04 am  Reply with quote
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MGF wrote:
I can understand why some guys just can't trust that Beretta company. They just haven't been around very long, and who knows if they'll stay on the market. Laughing


yup

mine has 1580-1980 on the rib...not very long at all

and even better it loads from the front, and uses real gunpowder Very Happy

rayb

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:01 am  Reply with quote
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Hey Ray....How long have you been around? Laughing Laughing Laughing . Beretta is known as the world's oldest continuously operating gun manufacturer. They've been at it since before 1580 actually. I'd give them at least a few more monthes before they throw in the towel. Wink

They also make a great gun. Its just that when they do screw up on one, it sometimes takes a visit from cousin Vinny No Neck to get them to stop stonewalling and make it right. However, by and large, their guns are very well made and highly thought of.

Well, perhaps some day you and I will both be around long enough to be highly thouyght of....well, at least you maybe. Laughing
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KyBrad16ga
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:17 pm  Reply with quote
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MGF wrote:
Thanks, Brad, that was some informative reading.
Sigh. I still want a 686/7 in 16. You'd think it wouldn't be enormously hard for 'em to try a run on a 20 ga. frame (the 686 in 20 is lively handler), but I guess it just isn't going to happen.
May have to eventually look into a 470 or 471 if they come out in 16. My bro's got a 471 with 26" tubes in 12 ga, and it is a lovely gun ... sportscar quick, though ... almost too fast for me.
For me, it would take a lot of shells to get used to switching from 0/U to a SxS. Heck, it's taken me 10 years and a goodly number of shells to become less than embarrassing with my O/Us. Embarassed
Guess I'll just have to keep makin' empties!


Mark - totally agreed here. I would love to see a 686/7 in a 16. They already have a solid 20 frame which would make for a virtual one of a kind 16 o/u if they would only decide to make it happen, SIGH...

As far as the Beretta sxs (470/1) I would love one of those as well, just not as much as an o/u. I actually shoot a sxs really well. Hmm...

Maybe Beretta will put one out eventually. Until then we hope and we pray... grr...

Brad
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:16 am  Reply with quote
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There is a very good chance Beretta will be making an SxS in 16 according to the scuttlebutt. The tooling for the frame and barrels already exists. However, a 16 ga on their 20 ga.O/U frame is not possible. The frame is too shallow to accomodate a barrel block with sufficient depth to take a pair of vertically stacked 16 ga. chambers. Beretta O/U guns hinge on side trunnions instead of a bottom hinge pin. There is no locking bolt on the bottom. Therefore, there is no room left to expand the barrel block downwards.

Miroku was able to modify their existing 20 ga frame because it already had sufficient depth to accomodate a pair of vertically stacked 16 ga. chambers. They simply widened the side plates by .050 per side to accomodate a sufficiently wide barrel block. In fact, the Miroku 20 ga. frame actually makes a better 16 ga. than a 20. The frame was originally designed with the idea of it being stout enough for a pair of O/U hi powered rifle barrels like an O/U 30-06 or .270, which in fact have been made in very limited quantities.

Beretta could probably make an O/U on their existing 12 ga frame, but it would be heavy. Anything for 16 in the O/U dept. would probably be a limited set of accessory barrels for the 12 ga frame. However, don't hold your breath. the weight factor is a big one. There are already lighter O/U guns on the market. Sales would be anything but brisk.
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Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:35 am  Reply with quote
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I love chatting about Beretta 16 gauge SxS shotguns. The problem is I end up talking to myself. Very Happy I shoot a 1933 16g Beretta along with a 1970's model 424 16g and a 1970's 411E 16g. They are fun and I look forward to Beretta adding a 16g to there present 471 line-up. Untill they get off there back side and do it I will just keep looking for the 16 gauges from the past. There were a few 16s imported to the U.S.A. so searching for one takes time and quick decision making. I'm now looking for a 409PB 16g. I traded off the first one I had. I won't do that again. Rolling Eyes
Good shooting,
Ron
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:52 am  Reply with quote
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Ron, I have looked for a decent Beretta 16 SxS with a single selective trigger for some time now. I have passed on the non selective ones before. I also have no real idea if many were made with a single selective set up or what models these are. Now, it looks like they are reaching the point where I can't really justify the price either. If I have to pay Merkel prices, I'll just get the Merkel. Berettas were once known as a great gun at a good price. Unfortunately, as with most good things 16, that is now too late. Prices are getting unrealistic for a used SxS gun.

Anyway, its ok to talk to yourself, as long as you don't end up having long involved conversations with folks who aren't there. Laughing
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Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:45 pm  Reply with quote
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16GAUGEGUY, I think you may be looking for something that was not made. The 409PB and the 411E either come with double triggers or a non-selective trigger. The first SxS with selectable trigger I believe was the 424 series then the GR and the 626 series. In those three the 16g was not imported through a dealer but the 424 was made in 16g for Europe. The other two I have not seen or heard of in 16g. Your right about Beretta and the prices. They make ones eyes water. Shocked I thought the 12 and 20 gauges were bad until I decided the 16g was a must have. Beretta imports just didn't seem to catch on until they went to the over/under models. I have always felt it was the reason their SxS shotguns commanded the higher prices. Top that off with the 16g being more European market makes for a hard to find expensive Beretta. If they were easy to find it wouldn't be as much fun. Wink
Keep hunting,
Ron
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:11 am  Reply with quote
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Well ron, its not the first time i've caught myself chasing my own tail. It probably won't be the last, either. Laughing
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DougK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:06 am  Reply with quote



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I had a Beretta. But never used it as it was too nice for the harsh Texas Hill Country. So I traded it for a Tikka, CZ o/U and a Stoeger SxS. I am very happy with the trade as the Tikka .270 and CZ 20 ga are for my wife.
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MGF
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:19 am  Reply with quote
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Just got caught up on my post reading.

16gg, thanks for the info on why we shouldn't expect Beretta to bring us a 686/7 anytime soon. Bummer, but the facts be what the facts be. I indeed may have to give a 16 ga. Citori an extended try one of these days.

KyBrad ... I wish I could say the same about my SxS shooting. I only carry hinge guns 'cause that's what I got started on as a kid (Stevens 311 was my first), and that's what I still feel most comfortable with. Somehwere along the line, I got into the 686 and similarily built guns and haven't had much luck if I try to move back and forth between O/Us and SxSs.

It's funny, right now ... my brother and I both have new bird guns. Him a Beretta 471 and me a FAIR 400, and we're both trying to see if we can "groove" our swings with these fast-handling little darlins. If I didn't love my slightly older bro, I'd have to hate him. Razz He's pushin' 46 and still has great eyesight and fast reflexes. But I got four years youth on him and time to make some empties, so I'm going gaining on the ol' boy. At least in my mind. Smile
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:17 am  Reply with quote
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I agree, Beretta makes a fine gun, and if they had stopped with the Bl- series I'd have been ok with that. I like them so much I got kathi a Bl-5 in 20 and she loves it. Almost as good as my pheasent killin laser beam Merkel.... Ok truth is, it was mine, and she made me give it to her when my addiction to 16's started. When the Austrian hammer came home she says, well now you have 1, 2 many , I want the bl, so to keep domestic harmony I gave it to her. Then a couple of others made in the door without her knowing, till one day she's cleaning the guns for me and she says, you've got about 5 guns to many for the safe, time to get rid of some. Hummmmm says I, why din't I think of that. Loaded up 4 of them went to the local gun store, a little trading and teh Merkel came home. Thats not what I ment says she, you were supposed to get rid of them and not bring more home. I told her it was looking at me thru the window, sad eyes, pleading take me home take me home(actually it said it in german, and I cant write that , so you got the english version) so whats a guy to do...
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