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Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

I guess the Posters on this forum have not read my Letter in DGJ critquing Sherman Bell and his methodology and conclusions because faced with the obvious you try to find reasons why this vintage type of shotgun should be safe to shoot with modern ammunition! The fact is that these old guns are were not manufactured with the modern quality control of today and they have seen wear and who knows what type of modification. Frankly I am not surprised at all by the results. -Dick

Dick,

I would love to hear you reply to that article but can't lay my hands on DGJ right now.
I would guess it would be OK to read your letter here if you wouid care to post it.

Here are the original articles:
Double Gun Journal can be reached at 800-447-1658.
Volume 10, issue 2
Volume 10, issue 4
Volume 12, issue 3
Volume 13, issue 2

and a link to LOTS of discussion on the PGCA Forum thereafter:
http://www.parkergun.org/forums/forum1/511.html

Lets see now... take one 100 year old damascus gun, mix thoroughly with a case of modern 2-3/4 inch shells, mix in some very hot reloads, keep pushing the limit and ....??? Can you say BOOOM!!! OUCH!!! WHAAAH!!! Laughing

ANOTHER blown up Sterly-this time the left side of the frame is cracked. WHAT ARE PEOPLE SHOOTING IN THESE GUNS Mad

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&item=220030525960&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

that auction will get pulled, even with a crack the receiver makes it a firearm...

Who knows how or when that one cracked. It may have been cracked 60 years ago and just sitting around rusting since then....

Jeff

Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Omaha

Hate to sound like a wimp, but this makes me nervous about the refinished NID I just recently aquired. It was just a few weeks ago you all helped me determine it is probably a 2 9/16"er. What else do I need to be aware of?

driggy: Worrisome isn't it? I shoot Fox and Parker guns made in 13', 22', 24', and 39'. None of us can know what loads have been shot in those guns in the past, a real concern esp. if they have short chambers (which about any pre-30's gun will.) The best insurance is to have a doublegun specialist smith examine the gun carefully and measure wall thickness to be sure previous honing or dent removal efforts haven't made the brls too thin. I'm very concerned about guns with previous stock repairs, especially cracked wrists-what happened to cause the sort of recoil that would do that? Shocked

Finally, as has been said over and over, it seems reasonable to shoot loads with pressures for which the gun was originally intended (or even lighter to spare that maybe 90 year old wood)
NIDs were the strongest of the Ithaca guns and very solid. I'd be much more concerned about a Flues or older gun.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

The only gun I know of with a tendancy toward cracked frames was the Flues model Ithaca, and that was mostly the early ones before they radiused the junction between the water table and the breech face.

Cracked frames are not something that you should lose sleep over.

Jeff

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

I think it's already gone. I ran an ebay search for Fox shotguns and another for Fox Sterlingworth today, which I do regularly looking for memorabilia, etc; it didn't show up. Didn't look real hard for it particularly, but I'm guessing it's gone.

Fin

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

fin, use the link in the post, it looks like it is still there.

Speaking of frames, there was post on another site that I follow A5's on that referred to a guy sellig an A5 frame in the white, no engraving, still packed in parchment paper and cosmolene, with no serial number on it.

I thought the law required a serial number on all frames before they are offered for sale, PERIOD. I thought it was illegal to buy, sell or possess a receiver without a number or on whigh the number was removed......Am I missing something here. Some one educate me.

Jeff

*Last edited by fin2feather on Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total*

Jeff,

Yep; you're right, still there. Guess I searched Fox instaed of Sterlingworth.

Fin

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

Jeff,
that the way I understand it as well.I would want nothing to do with a frame that had a altered serial number. I also would be very wary of someone sellin g them on Ebay.Its one thing to sneak by Ebay rules but another to break the BATF ones ! No matter what conditon the frame is in it still requires a FFL for transfer.
Dave

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

If the receiver was manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, it did not require a serial number. Over the years I've bought and sold a number of pre-68 guns that had no serial numbers. When the deal involved a FFL he wrote "no serial number" in the appropriate space.