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Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

Need the straight scoop on shipping guns FROM an individuall w/o FFL.

My understanding is that an individual w/o FFL can ship a gun, but only to an FFL.

I also understand that some carriers have stricter policies and will not allow a non-FFL to ship guns.

Does anybody have direct exeprience with this? And if some carriers won't allow a non-FFL to ship guns, which carriers are more gun friendly?

Thanks,

662

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Non FFL can ship a firearm to an FFL or manufacturer.

In my area, both FedEx and UPS are ok to use. FedEx getting the knod as being a little better and friendlier.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I use UPS, mainly because it's just around the corner from my office. Never had any problems. You only have to ship a long gun to an FFL, if you are selling it. You can ship it to an individual, for repair, and he ships it back to you, without any problem.

There was a long, and worrisome, thread on DoubleGunBBS about shipping guns about 2 mths ago. Unfortunately, it's been 'age deleted.' As I recall, someone had bad experiences with either FedEx or UPS and recomended using the USPS. I know the little UPS stores in my area require that you go to the main UPS distribution center to ship firearms.
With a few dissenters, the consensus was also to be honest in declaring the contents of the package ie: saying 'machine parts' may violate the law.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Uh..........No.
You must ship to an FFL or manufacturer for repair. Any "smith" must have an FFL or risk a trip to Leavenworth for engaging in the business of firearms repair without a license.

Sorry, I was just going by what my gunsmith had told me. I have shipped guns to out of state smiths, and never asked if they had an FFL.

What is a person supposed to do, ask the smith for a copy of his FFL, before you can ship him your gun for repair?

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Yes, in fact you ARE supposed to have a copy of the FFL on the receiving end before you ship a gun. Any dealer I've ever bought from has required that my local FFL guy, who receives guns for me, send them a signed copy of his FFL. And when I've sold long distance, I've always required that the buyer provide me with a copy of his dealer's FFL.

As long as you're talking long guns, they can go Postal Service as well as the commercial carriers.

Generally speaking, shipping guns is a pain in the a&&. I had a FFL for about 20 yrs and frequently had to educate UPS. I use USPS now as they are more convenient and I haven't been shipping handguns. The USPS just down the road makes me fill out a silly little form that isn't designed for individuals to use. The larger post office in town never asked for anything. I called a dealer in town to ask if they had any left over boxes to ship a gun in and got the run around about "only a FFL can ship to a FFL." I pointed out that he was wrong and he would have none of it. I suppose that he was just looking to grab some of my money using deceit by shipping it for me. Obviously, I won't do any business with his shop. When I sell a gun, I require that I have a copy of the buyer's dealer in hand before I ship it.

Most dealers are reluctant to send a signed copy of their licence to a non-dealer for obvious reasons. However, you should absolutely get the recieving FFL dealer's licence number and listed business address. Then you can check it out through the BATF and should. I also always make a phone call and talk with the recieving dealer as a courtesy and to line my ducks up.

I am lucky enough to have a FEDEX ground shipping station right up the road from my house. I have found them to be friendlier and less expensive than UPS. I'm also glad that since FEDEX bought out RPS, now UPS has some serious competition. They might have to change their attitude or pay the price. I don't use them anymore.

I recently bought a shotgun from an Ohio resident. He did indeed have to ship from a licenced dealer to a licenced dealer due to his state's law. Hope this info helps.

Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Traverse City, MI

One way I've been doing it when I go hunting out of state and I'll be flying is to ship the gun to myself in care of someone where I'll be staying. If they don't open the box, it's legal. I leave the gun there, packaged up again and addressed to my home, and when I get back I send a UPS call tag and they bring my gun back. The shipping costs a little, but so does a third bag on the airlines. And UPS loses my stuff a lot less often than does NWA, UAL, AA, etc..

I may be wrong on this because I haven't looked recently, but I think you can ship a gun intrastate to someone w/o an FFL on either end.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Steve, since you've already done the paperwork through a licenced dealer, you have taken possession in the eyes of the law. Certainly you can send it to yourself at your residence. However, if you address it to an unlicensed member of your family, that technically is an illegal transfer and both parties might end up in the soup. Howeve, sinse it is addressed to you, it can be left at your house legally in the care of one of your family but they should sign for it with your name just to be certain. A simple S. Smith will do in most cases. the deliveryman will not require any more than that.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Intrastate, unless state law states otherwise, a gun can be shipped to someone without an FFL. Example: If I sell a gun to someone in Iowa and it makes more sense for me to ship it to them than it does to do the transfer face to face, that's perfectly legal. I could not do the same thing, selling to a non-FFL holder outside of Iowa. Then I would have to ship to someone with an FFL.

Getting the license# and location of the dealer to whom you're shipping sounds good, but I would not be satisfied. Under the law, it used to be legal for a dealer to give a copy of his FFL to a buyer, who would then send that copy to the seller, followed by shipping the gun in question to the dealer. That law has changed. Now, the copy of the FFL has to go directly from the dealer to the seller. Were I a dealer, I'd have no problem with that. The copy is supposed to be signed in ink (although I think they also accept Faxed copies, which seems odd), and the dealer can write something on the copy like "File Copy Only"--because in fact, it's just for the seller's records. Seems like one should be in good shape getting the license# and location from the buyer and checking with ATF, but you're not totally sure that the dealer is in the loop. If he sends you a copy of his license, then you know darned well he's in the loop.