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wingshooter
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:24 am  Reply with quote
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Pulled a recipe from the 16 ga reloading group cd, and I think I have all the components. I have the MEC 9000G (it's actually been sitting for almost a year Embarassed ), and I think I'm ready to take the plunge. Here's the recipe and the question:

Rem Black Hull 2 ¾” 6 pt.7/8 oz.Unique16.0Win 209Rem SP-1611928066Armbrust Pressure/Velocity Tests 8-7-04

What, in your experience, would be the bushing # to throw 16 (grams?) of Unique? I have a #23: I carefully filled it with powder and then weighed it on my new powder scale (yes, I calibrated it). The scale read 2.13- (grams I think)! Does this mean I need a bushing about 7 or 8 times the volume? I am brand new to reloading, and want to be safe and do it right. Also with this wad, I believe I will need a filler. Larry I think uses puffed wheat or something akin. Would cocoa puffs produce a better dust cloud on late season clays? Wink

Any help for the newbie would be appreciated.

PS- Part of my question might be answered by the difference between grains and grams, but I don't mind showing my ignorance and willingness to learn

Mike

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Consistency is the currency of credibility

Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:37 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Location: Lancaster county, Pa

Check your bushing chart supplied with your loader. It will tell you which bushing to use for 16 grains of powder. They are usually on the light side. Please don't put 16 bushings full of powder in that shotshell.You will need filler for that load.
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wingshooter
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:50 am  Reply with quote
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Well, I don't know how I could have gotten 16 bushings full into the hull, but thanks for the reply. Looks like, according to the weight table, a grain is .0648 grams. I will check my bushing chart.

Thanks,
Mike

_________________
Consistency is the currency of credibility

Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers
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Birdawg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:59 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 05 Sep 2005
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Location: Idaho/ New Mexico

it looks like 23 or 24 should be close to 16 GRAINS of unique.
bd
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wingshooter
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:12 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
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Thanks bd- I just looked at MEC's chart for unique and you are exactly right.

Mike

_________________
Consistency is the currency of credibility

Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers
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bigric
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Round Rock, TX

MEC's chart will be too light; start at their recommended bushing, weight it, and work your way up the bushings until you find the one that throws your desired charge.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:22 pm  Reply with quote
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WS, that's definitely GRAINS of powder, not grams. 16 Unique is what I use in my 7/8 oz reloads, and according to my powder scale, a MEC 24 bushing comes very close.

That might be my load. I've sent that formula to Armbrust using both the SP-16 and the R-16 wad. You can use either, very little difference in pressure or velocity, except you'll need more filler with the SP wad. That's one of my Puffed Wheat specials!
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brdhnt
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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Wingshooter

NEVER WORK IN GRAMS WHEN DEALING WITH SMOKELESS POWDER!

Yes, the caps are intentional. If you have a true reloading scale (Lyman, RCBS, etc) it will have a be calibrated in grains if it is a mechanical one or the ability to measure in either Grains or Grams if it is an electric one.

Again, ALWAYS WORK IN GRAINS WHEN DEALING WITH SMOKELESS POWDER!

Forget doing the conversions. If your scale doesn't have the capability to work in Grains, sell it on e-bay to some dope dealer who needs a Gram scale and buy you a scale that is calibrated IN GRAINS!

Most bushings will run slightly on the light side. Run five cases through the machine throwing powder as part of the normal operation (just don't crimp the cases so that you can empty them. The weigh the individual powder charges and figure the average weight that your machine is throwing. If you change bushings (usually upward) do this until you have found a bushing that throws the charge that you want. I note in my loading manuals the actual throw charts of different bushings with different powders. Then if the load specifies what the bushing chart says should be a #23 bushing but I know that in my machine and with the lot of powder I am using I need a #25 to match the listed load, I will use the # 25, because I have tested and measured it and know that it is what I need.

I also check the powder charges at the start and every 15 rounds during the loading process to be doubly sure.

There are other variables, but these are the most important to remember.

Good Shooting

TMB
________
Ultimate fighter


Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wingshooter
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:43 pm  Reply with quote
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I checked the scale and it has a grain mode. The main reason (I may be mistaken or have overlooked it) grams even came up is because I only saw a number (on the printout for 16ga reloading group) for weight of the powder- no grain, grams, drams, metric tons- nothin'. Maybe it is just assumed everyone knows what it means, but you know what it means to assume. If it is there and I missed it, I apologize to the compilers. I need things spelled out, and am guilty of overlooking things (not birthdays or anniversaries though, as the conseqences could be as severe as putting 16 grams of powder in a Remington promo hull.

Larry, those wads you sold me- about how many puffed wheats per shell? Is it hot in Iowa? My morning coffee got hotter as the day wore on.

Mike

_________________
Consistency is the currency of credibility

Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:40 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Mike, please work out a loading routine that is both easy to remember, and efficient. It will save you a lot of headaches and maybe even a gun and some fingers. Forgetfulness and a lack of focus on the work can and will lead to trouble. Forunately, competative shooting has taught me to focus and concentrate. It has paid off in dividends-especially when I'm reloading. I also do not allow any distractions when I load including idle chitchat and phone calls. If I can't pay strict attention to loading, I don't do it until I can.

The Mec Grabber or 9000 will help stop double charges, plus, 16 grains of Unique is mild so even a bit more like 16.5 grains will not be a problem. However, under certain circumstances, you can throw a double charge and not know it on a progressive press. The occurance is to be avoided at all costs. If you do, or if the shot starts to spill over the wad on station 3, stop and check everything, before continuing. You might have a double charge. I put that shell aside after dumping the shot back into its bottle and cleaning up the machine from any spilled shot. I pull it apart later to salvage the wad, powder, and primer. I never crimp one of these mistakes closed. That is an accident waiting to happen.

I always use the exact same routine and have for 20 years now. I place my press on the reloading bench so two shell stackers of the correct gauge is immediately on the machine's right side (my left hand side). A small hamper or storage box of shells is to the right of the stackers. On the machine's left is a 3 pound margerine tub full of the right wads. If I'm using filler wads too, I place a 1 pound margerine tub in front of the bigger one containing my filler wads. I then fill the powder and shot bottles, and load the primer magazine Now I'm ready to go.

1. I pick up an empty shell and insert it with my left hand into station 1 after removing the loaded shell and dropping it into the stacker.

2. I then pick up a wad with my right and place it into the wad guide as I start to pull the loading lever down with my left. I watch the primer feed to make sure one drops correctly onto the shwell carrier and listen for the sound of the shot dropping into the case on station 4.

Then its handle up smoothly to a dead stop and repeat. I check the powder and shot levels after each 50 shells (two stackers worth) as well as the primers. I fill the shot and powder anytime its below the 3/4 empty level. This way, I never let the press run out of these things. I also use a powder baffle under the powder bottle. This helps insure a uniform powder charge. One of these gizmos is both cheap and easy to use. Its great insurance. I also weigh my powder charges to insure that the right powder bushing is in place. I've found that the powder baffle will usually require that you use a powder bushing 2 numbers higher than the chart shows. However, your drops will be near perfect every time with the baffle. BUT MAKE SURE TO CHECK BY WEIGHING. Never assume the chart or your hunch or my advice is right.

The only variation I use is to use both hands to pick up a wad and the filler wads simultaneously, insert the filler wads into the shot cup with my left hand, then place the wad with filler into the wad guide with my right as my left hand finds and operates the lever handle (step 2.)

I've been using this routine so long now that its second nature. I also leave five shells on my loader ready to go in various stages of completion, and cover the machine with a loose cloth dust cover. That way, I can start up immediately without having to do 5 handle pulls before the first shell is complete. The only time that happens is if and when I've set the machine up for a different load.


Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Mike, just put in Puffed Wheat until you reach the bottom of the old crimp. You'll eventually be able to "eyeball" it so you get good crimps. Because Puffed Wheat crushes, it's hard to put in too much.
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wingshooter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:29 pm  Reply with quote
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Thanks everyone, especially 16ga guy: unless you moonlight as a stenographer, I know how long it took to itemize your procedure and the focus necessary to avoid unwelcome events. What's a good source on a powder baffle?

_________________
Consistency is the currency of credibility

Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers
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wingshooter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:46 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D

Hey LB-

I won't run a fowl of the authorities for baiting birds with the puffed wheat, will I?

_________________
Consistency is the currency of credibility

Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers
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3DocPop
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:54 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
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Location: California

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Wink and a very small groan Very Happy
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onefunzr2
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:00 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: Sandy Lake, PA

I bought a universal charge bar for my Versamec 700 and it came with a baffle. Here is a link:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=746153&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=9315

Now I don't fool with bushings and charge bars anymore. And charge weights stay uniform from full bottle to almost empty powder bottle. I do still have to keep an eye on the shot as I am still using the original small size shot bottle. Refilling it every once in awhile is no big deal. I'm not in a race when reloading.
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