16ga.com ~ View topic

*Last edited by revdocdrew on Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total*

We've discussed this previously:
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
but here's some data from another thread:

Here is what I received for Gauge Mates when asking questions pertaining to 16 ga., reduced to 28 ga.

Quote:
We have commissioned independent
pressure/velocity test with Winchester
AA
and Remington STS ammunition in 12 to 20, 12 to
28 and 16 to 28-g
adapters.
Pressure testing was done at the forcing cone
area. Because different
test guns
were used, the 12-g gun was measured at 3" and
the 16-g at 3 5/16" from
the
breech face. There are no industry standards for
pressure at that point.
Here is a sample of the data.

16 to 28 Winchester AA -- 5900 psi and 1252 fps
16 to 28-g Remington STS -- 5100 psi and 1215 fps

Nominal velocity for both brands is 1200 fps
SAAMI pressure standard for 16-g at one inch from
the breech face is
11,500 psi.

girly boy just shoot 16's

Guest

If he uses the Guge Mates he won't need the Princess of Wales grip.

But on the other hand if he were using a boat anchor like a Merkel the additional weight would make the 16 gauge recoil seem like a 28 gauge.

Actually the 7/8 oz 16 loads I shoot are really nice (and Dave M gets all my empties for his scholastic shooting program Very Happy

)
Looks like we're going to have TWO merkels in Montezuma thuddd-don't let your shorts get tight when the birds are in the air Laughing

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

IMO two things----
1.I truly enjoy the 16
2.When it is time for another gauge my full length Kolars are the only way to go.Been there,done that with Chambermates,etc-----they are a waste of time to me -I can't be messing around with a stuck hull in a registered shoot or for that matter practice Embarassed

Member Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 134 Location: TEXAS

Howdy the forum,

I had been considering the Chamber Mates in 20ga for my 12ga SXS, and was not aware of the Gauge Mates.

I notice that there is a big difference in price, and apparently CM's have some kind of extractor function, and won't work in repeaters, and GM's supposedly work in repeaters but don't have the extractor function.

Hoashooter mentioned stuck cases with CM's.

Has someone fondled or used each who can fill me in on the pro's and con's?

Thanks,

HHH

*Last edited by revdocdrew on Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total*

It gets complicated Jimmie. Inserts were reviewed in both the March/April Shooting Sportsman and Pointing Dog Journal. I've used the Browning Little Skeeters-simple tube/sleeve to slide the smaller shell into. They were messy with powder blow back into the receiver and even AAs or STSs will eventually get stuck, and Estates and others will stick the first time. The Gauge-Mate Tubes are similar but have a little cut out to help remove the spent shell. Both might work ONCE in a repeater but if you don't catch the spent tube it's going to get dinged pretty bad if it hits the concrete pad.
The Chamber Mates http://www.gunshop.com/chambermates.htm and the GaugeMate-Golds http://www.gauge-mate.com/steves_corner.htm both stay in the gun by rubber O-rings. The Chamber Mates have integral extractors and the GaugeMate-Golds have a larger cut our so the extractor of the gun should work.
Most testers, and I agree, got good patterns esp. if going down only a gauge or two: 12 to 20 or 16 to 28, but some patterned well even 12 to .410.
Advertised cost: Gauge-Mate Tubes $40, GaugeMate-Gold $130-150, Chamber Mates $240. I think my Brownings were $50 and I'm not sure they're still offered.
Bottom line for me: dirty and a distraction my pea brain didn't need BUT alot of guys are using them for damascus brl 10s to 12 or 12 to 20 (for which they are advertised as NOT to be used) If doing so, I'd STILL use low pressure loads. The other problem which is likely just MY problem, because of my hopeless flinch with lunging forward at the shot (then having no recoil with the 410 tubes ) I shot well below the point of aim. That was not a problem with the 12-20 tubes though.
If you get a pair, let us know how they worked out.

Boat anchor??? humpppp

Hun.. I thought you had a boat? What's wrong with a spare anchor?

Guest

Good Morning All Beautiful Rainy Morning in Arizona, don't know as it will make any new Quail but it will certainly help those on the ground now. I purchased a 16 Ga. O/U and 16-28 Chambermates at the same time, can't say what the pressures were but I can speak to how they shot in the gun. I would guess the distance was about 30-35 yds, I had the IM and Full choke in the gun. Recoil was non-existent, but the birds were powdered, it just didn't seem like it should happen quite like that. The chambermates I had are a steel construction, you have to push the empty out with a rod. The cases didn't stick at all, I was using AA hulls AA wads and 3/4 oz of 7-1/2's. My thought when I bought the chambermates was to use them in my Flues to be a little kinder gentler load for the ole girl. I was definitely not expecting them to break birds like that. Pushing the empty out is a little cumbersome but boy really would be a way to enjoy an older gun with current loads. Wishing All a Splendid Day. Chet

I'd love to hear any experiences you folk have had with chamber inserts such as the Chambermates or Gauge Mates. In New Zealand non-toxic shot is mandatory only for 12 gauge - anything smaller can still use lead. So, I am thinking about a getting 16 gauge inserts for a 12 gauge so that I can be shooting 16 gauge lead over water (the only time we need non-toxic shot or sub gauges). I don't yet have a rainy day or rough field 16 gauge so this would be one way of achieving it.

There is a thread from last year about these Gauge Mates but I wonder if anyone has had any experience with them since.

Many thanks

Ross

*Last edited by revdocdrew on Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total*

Ross: I think you just discovered the only justification for the 1 1/4 oz 16g loadings Very Happy

Actually, sounds like a good idea. Using high quality shells with plastic, not fibre, wads (to seal the bore) your patterns should be very similar to a 12g (with the same shot weight) With the higher pressure loads you'll most certainly need a short rod to punch the empty case out of the sleeve, and they are a mess with lots of powder residue in the chamber and on the standing breech. I'd suggest doing some pattern testing and please do let us know how things work out. I was amazed at the 25 yd (skeet) patterns I obtained using the 20 to .410 inserts in a .003 choked Trojan.

Member Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 123 Location: Oregon

I'm using the 20 gauge silver gauge-mates in my 16 gauge Marlin model 90. I have to put silicon on the inserts to get them into the chamber cause it's a tight fit but then the gun open and closes fine with them in but they are too hard to pull out after every shot so I just push out the empties with a rod and the inserts stay in the chamber. Throw two more shells in and I'm ready to go again. It's a little extra effort but I'm in no hurry to burn up shells out practicing anyway so it doesn't bother me. The shells pop right out without much effort it's getting the inserts out after wards that's a pain. I'm thinking about buying one of those shell extractor tools from Galazan that you just hook over the rim and pull.

A friend of mine has the gold 12/20 one that stays in the chamber with the cut out around the rim for extraction or ejection. The company says that only AA and STS hulls will work with them but he says the cheap Remington's work too. The company also says that with the split tube 16/20 insert that the hull probably won't reload cause it puts a crease down the full length of the hull but I reloaded a AA and it works fine.

Larry

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

You guys have discussed all the 'new stuff' and done it well but I thought I'd add a bit of info about one of the older reducers. The Savage Four Tenner was made for the 12-16 and 20 gauges.
About 12" in length and centered in the barrel by a replaceable O-ring, the Four Tenner uses extractors that work just fine in my extractor equipped guns. They fit snugly and are 'seated' with a 2oz. nylon hammer; removal requires tapping them out using a dowell and the same mallet. I have the 16 gauge to .410 set and have used them quite effectively on the range and, at times, in the field. The patterns from the Four-Tenners seem to be a bit 'tighter' that those from the same gun when using the Gauge mates.
They are, of course, not easy to locate but some are around and should you find a pair you might want to consider reducing them to your posession.

Thanks guys. I'll probably start with a 12/16 set and have a play with the Rev's suggested 1 1/4 oz loads Shocked

Once I've completed the therapy and shoulder reconstruction I'll be sure to provide feedback........ It actually would make sense to me as 16 is the only gauge I intend loading and I could have a good play with different payloads and have the benefit of a heavier gun for the shoulder crushers.

I've read that these inserts can be used for shooting 2 3/4" 20 gauge shells out of a 16 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers. This could be a better bet for me than reloading 2 1/2 shells for my SxS. That way I could stick with loading the 2 3/4 shells for my Merkel O/U and for the gun with inserts. Any thoughts on the long 20 gauge in a short chambereed 16?

cheers
Ross