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double vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:38 pm  Reply with quote
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Looking for reccomendations for cost effective joint care supplements for my older dogs.
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:42 pm  Reply with quote
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I could personally benefit from this newfound knowledge Rolling Eyes
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Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:46 pm  Reply with quote
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A buddy just sent me this supplement link. Not sure how cost effective it is, I haven’t looked. He generally checks things out pretty well, but cost would not be an issue for him.

https://naturesfarmacy.com/

Good Hunting,
Mike
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JNW
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Jun 2010
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Location: Twin Cities, MN

There are lots of joint supplements for dogs. Just like the ones for people they are over the counter, so no prescription is required. Shop around and buy online. There are only 2 brands that have consistently been shown to 1)contain the ingredients they say they do and 2) actually improve joint fluid and hence, joint function in dogs with arthritis.

Phycox and Cosequin. The really fancy version of Cosequin is Dasuquin and that's what I gave my older dog. There is no such thing as an inexpensive and effective joint supplement for you or your dog. Essential fatty acid supplements (EFAs) also contribute to joint health and work synergistically with glucosamine based joint supplements like those mentioned above. With EFAs you also get what you pay for. If these two are not enough then an anti-inflammatory pain reliever should also be given. But hey, what do I know.
Jeff Wiemann DVM, PhD
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skeettx
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:32 pm  Reply with quote
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I LOVE THIS SITE ! Very Happy
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oldhunter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:36 pm  Reply with quote
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been using this for years. My eleven year old shorthair was on his first hunt of the year last Sunday and did not show any signs of stiffness after the hunt. He can still catch a chipmunk now and again.
http://www.prosensepet.com/Products/Dog/Joint-Care/Glucosamine-Advanced-Joint-Care.aspx

Wal mart carries it. Up here anyway.

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Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:00 pm  Reply with quote
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skeettx wrote:
I LOVE THIS SITE ! Very Happy


Ditto

Good Hunting,
Mike
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gjw
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Sep 2006
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Hi all, heres' what I give my GSP:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=29917

This one has MSM which from what I've read is a big plus for joint health.

This one is easy to give, either with food or I give it with a syringe (what I do).

I also give her Omega-3, helps with tuning a dogs scenting abilities:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0034528803000717

As they say it can't hurt!

Best,

Greg

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Woody402
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:43 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
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There is a good article in Gundog magazine this month about supplements. Without having it in front of me I can't remember the supplements that were recommended.
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:14 am  Reply with quote
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Dave,
Get out the fishing gear go catch some Lakers and landlocked Salmon feed each dog a salmon or trout every other day. On off days feed them each a fresh killed Pheasant, Grouse, Chucker or Quail. Smelt might be a good supplement also go net about a ton feed daily as treats. Laughing
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Gil S
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:09 am  Reply with quote
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Are there any veterniary medicine studies regarding joint supplements doing the job intended? Gil
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eng-pointer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:46 am  Reply with quote
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Quote:
Are there any veterinary medicine studies regarding joint supplements doing the job intended? Gil


Yes there are. In synopsis studies have shown mixed results. They have been disappointing in terms of pure pain relief and reversing joint degeneration but multiple supplements have shown encouraging, if not definitive, evidence in slowing the progression of Degenerative Joint Disease. I fully agree with Dr Wiemann in that the quality of the joint supplement is of utmost importance. I use Dasuquin as well. A high quality Krill based fish oil has also shown positive results.

James


Last edited by eng-pointer on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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cowdoc87
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:44 am  Reply with quote
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I'd agree with the other two vets,and there may be some support for using them to protect against cartilage deterioration, ie, starting dogs on it while they are still young, but to readdress Gil's question, there are no definitive studies in dogs (or people) that show overwhelming efficacy, at least that I have seen.
Also, this is a mostly unregulated market where you don't have to prove safety, efficacy, or even what is or isn't in your magic potion,or at what quantity, so I'd stick with the companies who give you good data, do the proper QC, and are actively supporting science-based R and D, like these guys-
http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/products-by-health-type/by-type/joint-bone-animal-health-products.
And nothing can REPLACE consistent exercise, weight control, training and common sense.

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double vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:04 am  Reply with quote
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pudelpointer wrote:
Dave,
Get out the fishing gear go catch some Lakers and landlocked Salmon feed each dog a salmon or trout every other day. On off days feed them each a fresh killed Pheasant, Grouse, Chucker or Quail. Smelt might be a good supplement also go net about a ton feed daily as treats. Laughing


I would enjoy that process! Smile

Thanks everyone for sharing the ideas and knowledge. I've never fed supplements before, but with a 9 year old with a tweaky knee, and a 14 years old who deserves a quality retirement I think it's time to start.
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eng-pointer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:54 am  Reply with quote
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I think cowdoc and I are on the same page if not the same paragraph. The studies have been disappointing in regards to improvement in joints with supplements with the best evidence being for omega-3 fatty acids. Where I think the majority of disagreement comes in is if there is significant evidence for their use to delay progression of Degenerative Joint Disease (DJD). I agree I have not seen definitive studies that show delayed progression and I don't think we are likely to see those studies anytime soon due to the cost and difficulty with long term studies. I do think that there is enough evidence to support that they are likely to delay progression of joint disease that I use them myself but if you are looking for absolute proof I don't believe it is out there. That all being said weight control has shown repeatedly to be the most effective way to minimize DJD.

James


Systematic review of efficacy of nutraceuticals to alleviate clinical signs of osteoarthritis.
J Vet Intern Med. 2012 May-Jun;26(3):448-56.
J M Vandeweerd1; C Coisnon; P Clegg; C Cambier; A Pierson; F Hontoir; C Saegerman; P Gustin; S Buczinski
Copyright © 2012 by the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine.

Article Abstract

BACKGROUND: Various treatments of osteoarthritis (OA) have been described, including use of nutraceuticals.

OBJECTIVES: To review systematically the literature about the effects of nutraceuticals on clinical signs of pain or abnormal locomotion in horses, dogs, and cats, and to discuss methodological aspects of trials and systematic reviews.

METHODS: A systematic search of controlled trials evaluating the impact of nutraceuticals on OA in horses, dogs, and cats was performed, using Medline, CAB Abstracts, and Google Scholar. Scientific evidence was evaluated by means of criteria proposed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and a scoring system adapted from both the CONsolidated Standards of Reporting Trials (CONSORT) statement and recommendations for assessing trials by the Center of Evidence Based Medicine of Oxford.

RESULTS: Twenty-two papers were selected and reviewed, with 5 studies performed in horses, 16 in dogs, and 1 in cats. The strength of evidence was low for all nutraceuticals except for omega-3 fatty acid in dogs. There were limited numbers of rigorous randomized controlled trials and of participants in clinical trials.

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL IMPORTANCE: The evidence of efficacy of nutraceuticals is poor, with the exception of diets supplemented with omega-3 fatty acids in dogs. Greater access to systematic reviews must be part of the objectives of the veterinary science in the future. Their reporting would be improved by internationally agreed-upon criteria for standards and guidelines.



Evaluation of the effects of dietary supplementation with fish oil omega-3 fatty acids on weight bearing in dogs with osteoarthritis.
J Am Vet Med Assoc. January 1, 2010;236(1):67-73.
James K Roush1; Alan R Cross; Walter C Renberg; Chadwick E Dodd; Kristin A Sixby; Dale A Fritsch; Timothy A Allen; Dennis E Jewell; Daniel C Richardson; Phillip S Leventhal; Kevin A Hahn

Article Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of a food supplemented with fish oil omega-3 fatty acids on weight bearing in dogs with osteoarthritis.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blinded, controlled clinical trial.

ANIMALS: 38 client-owned dogs with osteoarthritis examined at 2 university veterinary clinics.

PROCEDURES: Dogs were randomly assigned to receive a typical commercial food (n = 16) or a test food (22) containing 3.5% fish oil omega-3 fatty acids. On day 0 (before the trial began) and days 45 and 90 after the trial began, investigators conducted orthopedic evaluations and force-plate analyses of the most severely affected limb of each dog, and owners completed questionnaires to characterize their dogs' arthritis signs.

RESULTS: The change in mean peak vertical force between days 90 and 0 was significant for the test-food group (5.6%) but not for the control-food group (0.4%). Improvement in peak vertical force values was evident in 82% of the dogs in the test-food group, compared with 38% of the dogs in the control-food group. In addition, according to investigators' subjective evaluations, dogs fed the test food had significant improvements in lameness and weight bearing on day 90, compared with measurements obtained on day 0.

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: At least in the short term, dietary supplementation with fish oil omega-3 fatty acids resulted in an improvement in weight bearing in dogs with osteoarthritis.



Multicenter veterinary practice assessment of the effects of omega-3 fatty acids on osteoarthritis in dogs.
J Am Vet Med Assoc. January 1, 2010;236(1):59-66.
James K Roush1; Chadwick E Dodd; Dale A Fritsch; Timothy A Allen; Dennis E Jewell; William D Schoenherr; Daniel C Richardson; Phillip S Leventhal; Kevin A Hahn

Article Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To assess the effect of food containing high concentrations of fish oil omega-3 fatty acids and a low omega-6-omega-3 fatty acid ratio on clinical signs of osteoarthritis in dogs.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blinded, controlled clinical trial.

ANIMALS: 127 client-owned dogs with osteoarthritis in 1 or more joints from 18 privately owned veterinary clinics.

PROCEDURES: Dogs were randomly assigned to be fed for 6 months with a typical commercial food or a test food containing a 31-fold increase in total omega-3 fatty acid content and a 34-fold decrease in omega-6-omega-3 ratio, compared with the control food. Dog owners completed a questionnaire about their dog's arthritic condition, and investigators performed a physical examination and collected samples for a CBC and serum biochemical analyses (including measurement of fatty acids concentration) at the onset of the study and at 6, 12, and 24 weeks afterward.

RESULTS: Dogs fed the test food had a significantly higher serum concentration of total omega-3 fatty acids and a significantly lower serum concentration of arachidonic acid at 6, 12, and 24 weeks. According to owners, dogs fed the test food had a significantly improved ability to rise from a resting position and play at 6 weeks and improved ability to walk at 12 and 24 weeks, compared with control dogs.

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Ingestion of the test food raised blood concentrations of omega-3 fatty acids and appeared to improve the arthritic condition in pet dogs with osteoarthritis.


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