16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Win Super-X, and Remington hull 16ga loads
8mmFan
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 203

Hello everyone,

It's been a while since I posted. Hope you're all in the middle of some nice bird seasons in your respective locales.

I'm pretty much shooting several my 16 gauge shotguns exclusively now, other than a light 20 ga Citori, but I haven't reloaded for 16ga for several years. I have about 500 of the Super-X, about 200 or purple Federals (I threw away about 800 of them, after reading somewhere that they were lousy to reload; boy do I wish I had those back), and about 1,000 of the black Remington hulls.

Can any of you point me to hunting load data (1-1/4 oz.) for the Super-X or RGL hulls? I do have the Ballistic Products 16 gauge reloading manual, but the data for these two hulls is almost non-existent there.

Thanks very much.

8mmFan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
byrdog
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:48 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn

Go to Hogdon's data site and check out the Longshot data.

_________________
ALWAYS wear the safety glasses

If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:58 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

Federal hulls are used for 1 1/4 oz loads

_________________
,
USAF RET 1971-95
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaDavis
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

Lyman #2 ....Win CF , CCI 109/209 , Rem SP , 11/4 , either 20grns Unique or 25.5 Blue Dot . The BD load lists a Win 209 primer .

_________________
Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
byrdog
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:27 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn

I will say this though, an 1 1/8 will work as well or better than the 1 1/4. faster, less recoil less flinching better patterns.

_________________
ALWAYS wear the safety glasses

If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
8mmFan
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 203

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm thinking that the reason I wasn't finding load data is that I was looking specifically for "Winchester Super-X" hulls, in load data.

Is the 16ga Super-X the same as Winchester CF and "Winchester polyformed plastic game shell?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike campbell
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:01 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338

Rolling Eyes


Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
16gaDavis
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

BD - you are correct . We're at 7/8 being plenty ! however , what one wants - one wants .... Mikey , they were radically different - though usually can see easily with a pen light . however , I've been known to have a case or 2 laying around that has the knife cut outs in them ! Much harder to reload !! but that way you DO get the final answer .

_________________
Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
8mmFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 203

Thanks again, guys. From what you're all saying, I'm thinking these Win hulls are the polyformed version, as I bought them all roughly 10-12 years ago, fired them, and saved them.

Bonus: searching through some boxes yesterday, I found two cases of shells that I reloaded about ten years ago when I first found 16ga.com! Now, if I could just remember what the recipe was...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:58 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

First the short explanation of Winchester Western PLASTIC hull identification and usage:

1) If the exterior does not have longitudinal ribbing, it is a Compression-Formed hull (CF).

2) If the exterior is ribbed it is a straight walled/3-piece/Rieffenhauser/polyformed hull -- all these terms basically mean the same construction.

3) If the RIBBED hull has a PAPER basewad, it is the old type, and not really very good for reloading due to the possible uncertain condition of the base-wad.

4) If the RIBBED hull has a PLASTIC basewad, it is a modern type good for reloading, likely of Cheddite or Martignoni manufacture, loading the same as those brands or Fiocchi, etc. -- Euro-hulls!

More Details:
It's easy to tell a CF Winchester-Western hull -- Look at the outside and inside -- no need even to cut these apart to see: Outside: very hard, non-ribbed outside surface that often shows some swirly texture due to the flow of plastic during the compression molding process, and Inside: tapered inside all the way to the bottom in one piece.

If it is a RIBBED Winchester-Westen hull, it is a straight-walled 3-piece Rieffenhauser type. If it has a relatively flat PLASTIC inner base-wad, it likely will be labled with the current Super-X designation. These are either Cheddite or the earlier Martignoni manufacturer or some other similar thing. Whether High or Low brass, the internal capacity is the same. These all load the same as any other Cheddite, Martignoni (Nobel-Sport), Fiocchi etc type hull. They all have very close to the same capacity -- only a few #9 pellets difference between these brands and batches, for the same hull length (most are 70 mm). For reference, Federal plastic 16's load about the same, but have about 1/10th inch less internal depth, and are sometimes a tad shorter in overall length.

If the RIBBED plastic Winchester-Western hull has a PAPER internal basewad, it will likely be labeled Western Super-X or Winchester SuperSpeed (high brass) or Western X-Pert or Winchester Ranger or sometimes Upland (low brass). These hulls are probably not worth re-loading due to the effects of age and moisture on those basewads. If they dry out the basewad shrinks and if they get wet it expands. Either way, the pieces (multiple) can debond on firing and lodge in your barrel. (Wound paper basewads such as in Federals don't do this - at least as far as I can tell. But I still reject the wet Federals.) Also, the high-brass hulls with the paper basewads have considerably more internal capacity than the low-brass hulls of the same general construction. The high-brass ones were made for the more capacious std. high-velocity load and magnum loads, and the low-brass ones were offered in the so-called std. field load and lighter.

Keep in mind the higher performance and premium priced Winchester and Western shotshells of the same era were put in high brass CF hulls (labeled Mark 5 because of the shot protecting sleeve, and probably had harder shot, too), and whether the brass (which is mostly cosmetic in CF hulls) is high or low (AA's), the internal dimensions/capacities of all Winchester/Western CF's of a given gauge are the same for all time, regardless of lableling. Later, and until the Euro-hulls came into use, even some lower-priced Winchester Western loadings were put in CF hulls (Super-X, X-Pert, Upland, etc) -- confusion, confusion. Fortunately, CF hulls are easy for the re-loader to identify -- see above.

I will add that CF hulls are not particularly good for heavy or magnum re-loads compared to today's plastic based straight-walled Euro-hulls, due to the fact CF's have less capacity, often fewer compatible wad choices, and they seem to make a given powder burn at a faster rate due to the tapered/parabolic nature of the base -- a focused combustion chamber, if you will. This can be seen in the copious reloading data for 12's and 20's for sure. It's an advantage for lighter loads. I believe Olin, when coming out with the Winchester and Western brand AA (their first compression formed product), and simultaneously developing their ball-type powders, wanted to make a very economical but consistent shell for a large market (clay target shooters). The parabolic CF hull internal shape allowed the use of relatively small amounts of powders, and a hull that high-volume shooters would favor if they wanted to re-load, and a one-piece wad system that was inexpensive for Winchester to produce and handle and also easy for the re-loader to use. For higher performance hunting loads in CF hulls, relatively small amounts of slow-burning ball powders did the job, but pressures were high (not a problem - actually a good thing - within SAAMI limits, of course), and hull capacity was low, necessitating the use of conventional card and filler wads and separate plastic sleeve (Mark 5) for shot protection, instead of a one-piece wad. This had to be costly compared to what Federal and especially Remington were doing in their premium loads with straight-walled hulls. Remington-Peters' use of the "Power Piston" one-piece wad must have given them a cost advantage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
8mmFan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 203

Maximum Smoke,

Thank you, very much, for the great knowledge you just shared. It does indeed help me with these hulls. I just discovered another 500 of these hulls recently, loaded and ready to go. So it is great to know that now I can get a lot more loads to try, knowing their equivalency to the euro hulls.

Thank you, again. I appreciate it very much.

Sincerely,

8mmFan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 1
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09