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< 16ga. Guns ~ a question of shot size |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:30 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 159
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this might be a dumb question, but its something ive been wondering about. the traditional shot size for trap is #8, but for skeet its #9. why is this? if 9s are capable of busting clays, then why not use them for trap, too? |
_________________ al |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9472
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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skeet hit ranges are closer than trap hit ranges |
_________________
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USAF RET 1971-95 |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 159
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makes sense |
_________________ al |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:41 am
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Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 419
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I believe that 8s are a compromise. When I started shotgun shooting it was 7 1/2s for trap and 9s for Skeet. 8s have become popular as all around, but for handicap trap I think you will find mostly 7 1/2s. 9s loose energy too fast for the longer trap shots. Most clays courses I have shot at limit the max pellet size to 7 1/2s too.
Bob |
Last edited by rkittine on Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Robert Kittine
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV
16 Gauge O/U Browning 525 Sporting
16 Gauge SxS Rizzini Islide
16 Gauge Pump Browning BPS Upland
16 Gauge Semi-Auto Remington 1100 Sporting |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:18 am
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Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 1115
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On the April Vanzant shoot, they played a game where they shot trap starting from 10 yards behind the house, 3 shots to break one clay or you're out. They kept moving back with shooters being eliminated until they were 50 yards behind the house and kept shooting rounds until all but the winner was eliminated. Initially #8 was fine, then 7 1/2's, but it ended up the players were using turkey load #6's and turkey chokes to stand any chance at all of breaking a clay at the 65 to 75 yard ranges. Quite an interesting and illustrative shooting competition. |
_________________ An elderly gentleman, his faithful dogs, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world. |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:18 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3440
Location: Illinois
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Ever notice that given any #25 bag of shot size will vary +1/-1.For example buy a bag of 8's and you will find 9 and 7.5 shot mixed in.A larger pellet will retain more energy downrange .In most cases it will take an increase of at least 2 shot sizes to realize this. |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:54 am
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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So a #9 at 1000 fps+ will not break a clay at 50+ yds? I've wondered about that also. That seems dubious. It would seem to me that the more pattern density, the better. |
_________________ Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:09 am
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were
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Most folks who shoot much late winter 3-man and Protectors at Trap often gravitate to 6s in third position.....there are always the 27 yard shooters tho who still break a target shooting third with 7 1/2s.....IF, the first two shooters miss quickly enough.
Pellet, imo, is but one factor in an answer to shoot way out targets.
Never heard of 8s as the standard Trap pellet...may be a regional standard.
Fwiw, one will also find more than the odd clay with one or two holes...and unbroken. I suspect far out targets lose a bit of spin and spin is what helps break clays.
7 1/2s....hard to best as a pellet. |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:32 am
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Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 1700
Location: Minnesota
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Could it be one of those depends on the gun things? Years ago, I bought a used BT99 that came with only the full tube. Even though its a heavy gun,I didn't like the recoil of 1 1/8 oz loads. After doing some reading I decided to try 7/8 oz of 9's but at a published 1300fps. Did quite well with that load for a couple years but then for a reason I don't remember, I went to 1 oz of 7 1/2's which was supposedly, by the book, in the 1175 range. Shot that load for several years. My daughter also used that gun and load when she shot for her high school trap team. Once I got a graph, I found out that 1oz load was only going 1125. For me, it seemed that the 7 1/2's break but not dust those clays that get out there a ways better than the smaller shot. Just my experience on 16 yd trap. |
_________________ Great dog, Great friends,Great guns |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:40 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 159
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well this makes me curious. I might have to load some 9s, and see how well they work at trap. |
_________________ al |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:46 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 159
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any "trap" shells that you buy at wal mart, are 7.5 or 8. also, I collect vintage ammo, and it used to be that trap shells and skeet shells were marked as such on the box. and the trap shells were always 8s, and the skeet shells, 9s. |
_________________ al |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:48 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 159
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tramroad28 wrote: |
Never heard of 8s as the standard Trap pellet...may be a regional standard.
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_________________ al |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:39 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2068
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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jeez , don't let Nick see you question a "nine" capability !!! many of the better trap shooters here use 9's for reg trap . |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:04 am
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 756
Location: Mn.
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I am not aware of a single really good trap shooter anywhere to make the 27 yard line with 9's. In fact very few get punched to the 27 with 8's. Ask any AA27AA shooter or better what they use and you would be hard pressed to find one that didn't say 1 1/8 oz. of 7.5
Savage16 wrote: |
Could it be one of those depends on the gun things? Years ago, I bought a used BT99 that came with only the full tube. Even though its a heavy gun,I didn't like the recoil of 1 1/8 oz loads. After doing some reading I decided to try 7/8 oz of 9's but at a published 1300fps. Did quite well with that load for a couple years but then for a reason I don't remember, I went to 1 oz of 7 1/2's which was supposedly, by the book, in the 1175 range. Shot that load for several years. My daughter also used that gun and load when she shot for her high school trap team. Once I got a graph, I found out that 1oz load was only going 1125. For me, it seemed that the 7 1/2's break but not dust those clays that get out there a ways better than the smaller shot. Just my experience on 16 yd trap.
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It isn't the gun it is the shot size. And you are correct, especially when it is cold even 8's will dust targets when 7.5 will break them even at the 16 yard line. I've seen them hit so hard they move off flight and dust but not break with 8's. In the winter.
When I was younger and the cold didn't bother me so much used to shoot the Winter Blizzard league, State of Wisconsin vs. Minnesota. Starts with the Red Eye shoot on Jan. 1 and goes for 3 months, if you place in the top ten at a Mn. club you win a meat tray. At a Wi. club it is usually a bottle of booze. Normally it is well below zero and sometimes really is in a blizzard. At most places the scorers will pull up behind the shooters in their truck with the heater on.
First year surprised me how many targets were dusted and not broke. So I started asking them what shot size and shell they were using. In every case it was 8's, speed didn't seem to have anything to do with it. After the first year got to the point I'd say to someone that dusted a target that if they were using 7.5 they would have broken that target. And they would ask how did I know they where using 8's. Well...
Bio's aren't much better even in the summer. 2 weeks ago was shooting at Byron and had a true pair overhead. One of my birds didn't break and everyone looking up said they could daylight through the bird. A kid shooting with us walked over and brought the target back and it had 14 holes in it. I ordered 4 flats of 7.5 when I got home LOL. At $5 a box I can't load them that cheap. 16 is a different story though. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:34 pm
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Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN
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I used to shoot at a club in Michigan where all the old trap shooters used only #7 1/2 shot for the very reasons that Cold Iron just cited.
I have been hit by my own ricochet off a target with #9 shot at station 2 on a skeet field.
I think that #9 is definitely light for trap. However, I think there is one shooter on the US Army Marksmanship team that uses it for the first target in international double trap. The velocity is significantly higher than ATA though.
BTW: Shot last week at Byron for the first time. Nice course. |
_________________ John Singer |
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