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Don Pillsbury
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Rhode Island

I am a new member and this is my first post. I received, as a gift, a pre-war Winchester Model 21, straight stock, two 26" barrels: skeet and full/mod. Had good success on the skeet field in the two time I have used it. I was crushing the targets (by my standards) but the gun was pounding me. I was using Fiocchi Game & Target load, 1166 fps, 1 oz., product #16GT8. Looking for lower felt recoil. Currently reload 12 and 20 and will be setting up for 16.
Suggestions?
Don
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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello Don Pillsbury

WELCOME on your first posting

Those loads seem mild but let's see what we can do

You can try these
http://www.rstshells.com/store/p/116-16-Ga-2-1/2-Lite-Vel-1100-3/4-oz-Load-Box.aspx

Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Don Pillsbury
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Rhode Island

Thanks!

For my 12 and 20 gauge loads I normally use 3/4 oz at 1175 to 1200 fps and am looking for a recipe that would produce that with the Fiocchi hulls that I am generating.

Don
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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:23 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
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Location: Amarillo, Texas

I would say enroll in this FREE data

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/reloading16gauge/


Last edited by skeettx on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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3birddogs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 567
Location: wheeling, wv

Yes, by all means join the 16 reloading group that Skeetx posted. You will love 3/4 and 7/8 oz loads thru your Model 21.

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Hootch
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Might not be ammunition, gun may not fit you properly
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Welcome aboard and oooooh my! Quite the gift indeed. Stock fit could be an issue if it off enough. If you are shooting really well, it's probably close though. Pick a spot to focus on (corner of ceiling works well), focus on it, then bring the gun up with your eyes closed. Once you have mounted the gun, open them and see where the rib is pointing. You'll know then.

Load data is available to load as light as 5/8 oz. of shot; you can pick a pretty light load for recoil reduction.

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:43 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2165
Location: Florida

Here are some light 3/4 oz loads from the Hodgdon reloading site

Ched 2 1/2" Hull 3/4 oz lead

Hodgdon Internat'l Ched. 209 DR 16 15.3 5,700 PSI 1,100
Hodgdon Internat'l Ched. 209 DR 16 15.9 6,200 PSI 1,150
Hodgdon Internat'l Ched. 209 DR 16 16.6 6,700 PSI 1,200
Hodgdon Internat'l Nobel 209 DR 16 15.3 5,400 PSI 1,100
Hodgdon Internat'l Nobel 209 DR 16 16.2 6,000 PSI 1,150
Hodgdon Internat'l Nobel 209 DR 16 17.0 6,500 PSI 1,200


Last edited by fn16ga on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Don Pillsbury
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Rhode Island

Thanks for the responses!

WyoChukar
I think the gun fits well. I shoot gun low (on the hip) and it comes to position very well. It is a 6 1/2 pound gun shooting effectively a 12 ga load with no recoil pad. I have ordered a Galazan slip-on recoil pad and we will see how that goes. It might increase the LOP too much - but we shall see.

fn16ga
Thanks for the reload data. I had not considered a 2 1/2" hull as my 12 and 20 are 2 3/4". Any problem with burning the chamber as there was with shooting .22 shorts? I like International and use it in my 20 ga. Nice not to have another powder to mess with. It looks like used 16 ga MEC presses are rare so I will have to pony up for a new one.

Don
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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:28 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Amarillo, Texas

No issue on chamber stuff
What MEC press are you thinking of buying?
Where do you shoot?

https://www.claytargetsonline.com/rhode-island/

Mike

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:35 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Florida

Like skeettex said no problem with shooting 2 1/2" shells in 2 3/4" chambers , I do it all the time .
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Don Pillsbury
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Rhode Island

I prefer the Sizemaster because it puts less stress on my shoulder when it comes to resizing the brass/steel of the fired hull. I currently have a 9000 for 12 gauge and a new Sizemaster for 20. The latter replaces an older press that resized by swaging which caused shoulder problems.

I shoot at the Narragansett Gun Club: 4 combination skeet/trap fields, a 5 stand, a 50 yard rimfire range and a 100 yard anything-goes range. Good group of guys.
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rdja
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:06 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Location: SW Ohio

Don, that gun definitely does not work for you with that recoil issue. You should send the gun to me, and it will fit nicely in my safe beside my 2- 12 ga Model 21s. I'll trade you my Beretta Silverwawk.Laughing

Seriously, I am a big 21 fan, would love to get a 16 someday, especially if it has 2 triggers. I would strongly suggest getting a Kickeez recoil pad to have mounted to the gun. The older 21 I have had a hard old red Winchester pad and kicked the snot out of me. I had that pad removed and had a Kickeez pad fitted to the gun and it made all the difference.
Another option would be to add weights to the barrels, I have seen them for OU guns not sure they make them for SxSs. Also you could drill the stock and add a stock weight, then remove it when you wanted the gun to be lighter as in hunting. Any weight added with help absorb recoil.

3/4oz loads are pretty easy with the DR 16 wad and will make a big difference in felt recoil. That all I shoot at 5 stand and skeet now.

how about some pics????

Darn it!! Now I feel the need to go shopping for a 21 16ga.
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

I shoot a M21 16 ga for sporting clays and my go-to load is 16.6 gr Green Dot, DR16 wad and either 3/4 or 7/8 oz shot, WW/cheddite hull, W209. Not sure what the pressure is but similar loads have been pressure tested by others on this site and it's well below max. I can shoot 100 shot course with no adverse effects from recoil.
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Don Pillsbury
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Rhode Island

I am sure, AmericanMeet, that 3/4 oz. will calm it right down. 3/4 is what I normally shoot. I am about to order a MEC reloader, so scarce that it will be dropped shipped from the factory. In the meantime I will continue to shoot the 1 oz/1185 fpm factory loads with a Galazan slip-on boot.

And rdja, I asked the gun about your offer. The gun told me that it would prefer to stay here. Sorry.

I have a Citori Lightening 20 ga. that was painful to shoot with the factory stock, even with a Mercury Recoil Suppressor. My cheek and jaw would ache after two rounds of skeet. I purchased a Wenig blank and made a new stock. With the mercury suppressor it is now a joy to shoot.

I'll post some pictures of the M21 as soon as I figure out how to do it.

Don
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