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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Every once in a while that old urge to browse guns sneaks up and shoves me over the edge of the pool. Most times I climb out and dry off so to speak and every once i a while I emerge with a "new" gun. Lately my eyes have been a wandering the online used gun sites, a financially precarious situation. There exist a few 16's that I would very much like to own someday but are unfortunately difficult to acquire for an amount I can spend. No great harm looking, other than a little earnest yearning.

One thing I also watch for, is a bargain. I am open to a variety of guns so long as the gun is interesting as something I will use, not trade. Questions pop up here from those looking to get their first 16, or perhaps a second. Many are folks with limited funding as well.

This brings up the subject of bargain guns. I don't mean an obviously underpriced example of a particular model, but a make/model that is consistently affordable yet is really a pretty good gun, exhibiting quality and workmanship beyond the average used value for said firearm, especially when compared to current model pricing vs. quality level.

So, without further delay, what are the great "bargain" models, guns that are very nice for the price?

I will kick this off by submitting the two barrel gun that always seems to pop up in good numbers for reasonable dough: the Lefever Nitro Special. This little gem is essentially the Ithaca Flues pattern double at a lower price. The finish on top of the rib is different and the trigger guard is abbreviated (on my 12 it is anyway), but that's about it. Used 16's in good shooting condition can be found for $350-$450. It takes a fairly prime example to fetch much more. Truly a good way to enter the world of hunting with a classic 16 ga. double.

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Beagleman
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:50 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Clemson

I have found Rem mod 31s and 31Ls and Ithaca mod 37s to be at bargain prices($200-$400)for quality made slide action guns. There is nothing wrong with a win mod 12 pump but it usually costs a minimum of a 50% increase in cost.
In autoloaders you can not beat the quality of a 11-48 for money spent.$365 incl ship and FFL fee got me a nice autoloaders that so far has shot every shell I fed it.I have several Browning swt 16s that cost considerably more that don't shoot any better.
These 16ga guns came to mind as low cost quality bargain guns. I shoot every gun I own. IF any others occur to me I will post them. Ken

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fourtrax
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 827
Location: N. Shore, mn

For a sxs I like the JP Sauer guns. Well built and will take the lickin & keep on ticking.
These guns are usually lower priced than comparable sxs. Your talking around a grand instead of $400.00 though.

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John Singer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

I have two 16 gauge guns that I would consider bargain guns.

The first is the Stevens 5100. They are essentially the same as the Savage/Stevens 311 but the wood is actually a walnut and the fit and finish is better. These guns were probably pretty affordable when new and were quite well built. I have always felt that a 12 gauge Savage 311 swings like a pair of gas pipes duct taped to a 2x4. However, the 5100s, especially in 16 gauge feel and swing like a gun should. I paid $100 at a garage sale for my 16 gauge Stevens 5100 about 10 years ago.

The second 16 that I have is a Savage 720. This is an American made Browning Auto-5. They are actually stamped with John Browning's name and are very well built. They cost a fraction of what a Belgian Browning costs. The 720 is not a Sweet-16 but it does swing and shoot well. My personal highest scores on a sporting clays range were shot with this gun.


Last edited by John Singer on Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:10 am; edited 2 times in total

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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:08 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

there's a late model M12 20ga with a vented poly at my local shop . Metal is worn , action is good 265 bucks . I won't go back till I'm sure it's gone !! ... also has a Darne which to me is an odd duck . Thumb levers unlock the action and it slides back . The only feature that I don't like is the FP's travel back forward and can't see the pt where they latch up . Really nice, lite weight 28'' barrel gun - 1600 bucks , not in my range .

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fin2feather
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:18 am  Reply with quote
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John Singer wrote:
I have two 16 gauge guns that I would consider bargain guns.

The first is the Stevens 5100. They are essentially the same as the Savage/Stevens 311 but the wood is actually a walnut and the fit and finish is better. These guns were probably pretty affordable when new and were quite well built. I have always felt that a 12 gauge Savage 311 swings like a pair of gas pipes duct taped to a 2x4. However, the 5100s, especially in 16 gauge feel and swing like a gun should. I paid $100 at a garage sale for my 16 gauge Stevens 5100 about 10 years ago.

The second 16 that I have is a Savage 720. This is an American made Browning Auto-6. They are actually stamped with John Browning's name and are very well built. They cost a fraction of what a Belgian Browning costs. The 720 is not a Sweet-16 but it does swing and shoot well. My personal highest scores on a sporting clays range were shot with this gun.


Agreed! My 5100 16ga is the first double I owned and I still think I might shoot it better'n any of 'em. Stevens doublse get a bad rap, and a lot of the late ones were pretty bad. With Stevens guns, the earlier the better. I have guns marked 5100 in 16, 20 and .410; all decent doubles. (By the way, Researcher will probably be along pretty soon to say that there is no model 5100; that stamps just denotes the action shape or something like that. He also says the guns I have are actually model 530's, not 311's. Don't know about yours.)

My Savage 16ga 755 is essentially the same gun as the 720 but with a rounded action back instead of the hump back. It was my dad's gun and doesn't get out much anymore, but it's the first real shotgun I ever carried. Built on the Browning pattern; the poor man's Auto 5 Very Happy !


Last edited by fin2feather on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Flues16
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:18 am  Reply with quote
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There are some very good bargain guns mentioned in this thread, but I'd like to echo WyoChuker's mention of the Nitro Special. It's actually more akin to Ithaca's NID than the older Flues model. It had a very strong frame and was designed (as the name suggests) for the more powerful smokeless powder loads that were coming on the market in the 1920s. They aren't the most elegant double guns around but they were, and still are, a good gun for the money. The early 16s had short chambers, but they can easily be lengthened if desired.

I have fond memories of using my best friend's 20 gauge Nitro Special on some after school squirrel hunts many years ago. He knew I liked the gun, so he would use his .22 rifle and let me have the Nitro. I now own one in 16 gauge and 20 gauge.

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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:02 am  Reply with quote
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Question on the Nitro Specials versus NID
Were the cast or milled frames?
Any strength issues?
Mike

My NID 10 gauge

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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:25 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

What I see as bargains for "use" guns without considering investment terms are ones such as Win M12 that have been altered. Generally the alteration is the addition of a poly choke, which ruins the collector value and thus plummets the price. The gun can be restored to original configuration by locating an unaltered barrel so that it shoots like an original M12 but with different numbers, it never regains original pricing, so is available as a bargain gun.
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Gil S
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:03 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Lowcountry Ga.

I think there is a sliding "bargain" scale. The best value for the money is a Birmingham made English BLNE lightweight game gun in 12 ga. Next would be 16 ga. Both SXS.
Guild German guns, pre-war, are good values and often bargains in 16 ga. SxS.
French guns, guild or otherwise, are fine guns for the money.
I picked up this pre-war Brun-Latrige French 16 ga., BLNE off of a doublegun site's for sale list for $850 delivered. 27" barrels I had opened up from M/F to IC/LM. 5 lbs., 13 oz.
[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53587_600x400/] [/URL]
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Flues16
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:31 pm  Reply with quote
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skeettx wrote:
Question on the Nitro Specials versus NID
Were the cast or milled frames?
Any strength issues?
Mike

The Nitro Special and the NID used forged milled frames. They both had cocking rods activated by cams in the gun's knuckle rather than cocking hooks. They used a rotary bolt lock-up instead of the underbolt of the earlier Ithaca guns. This allowed more steel to remain in the frame thus giving it more strength. I'm not a gunsmith, but I haven't heard much about either having any frame strength issues.

The Nitro Special was probably as strong as the NID, but it was a lower priced gun due to less attention paid to its fit and finish. More than a quarter of a million of them were made. As WyoChuker said, today 16 gauge Nitros can be found at very reasonable prices.

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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

Interestingly, I spent 2 hours last night looking for "bargain 16ga semi auto" guns that I might use for steel shot, and about half of that was looking at 11-48s. Glad to hear the positive report on those.

I was going to post a thread today asking about the Rem mod 11 and savage version of the Auto-5 (720, 745 and I see above 755) how those two compared to the Browning for function and as "bargains".

Right now I'm concentrating on:
Rem 11-48, late models up to 1968 finish
Browning Auto 5, Japanese, 88-98 w/ chokes
Rem Mod 11, (Auto 5 copy) late model, production ended 1947 I think?
Savage 720 (auto 5 copy, ended 1949) or
Savage 745 (auto 5 copy, ended 1949, alloy receiver)
Rem 1100, 2003 w/ chokes

I don't know almost anything about Auto-5s or the licensed copies from Rem and Savage, what differences there are (safety location? mag cutoffs?), and which are usable for steel shot, which has driven me towards the 11-48 just to avoid all the confusion.

Any further comments on these guns and how they relate to "bargains" as the OP defined it: "a make/model that is consistently affordable yet is really a pretty good gun, exhibiting quality and workmanship beyond the average used value for said firearm, especially when compared to current model pricing vs. quality level."
Thx!
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John Singer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Dave In AZ wrote:
Interestingly, I spent 2 hours last night looking for "bargain 16ga semi auto" guns that I might use for steel shot, and about half of that was looking at 11-48s. Glad to hear the positive report on those.

I was going to post a thread today asking about the Rem mod 11 and savage version of the Auto-5 (720, 745 and I see above 755) how those two compared to the Browning for function and as "bargains".

Right now I'm concentrating on:
Rem 11-48, late models up to 1968 finish
Browning Auto 5, Japanese, 88-98 w/ chokes
Rem Mod 11, (Auto 5 copy) late model, production ended 1947 I think?
Savage 720 (auto 5 copy, ended 1949) or
Savage 745 (auto 5 copy, ended 1949, alloy receiver)
Rem 1100, 2003 w/ chokes

I don't know almost anything about Auto-5s or the licensed copies from Rem and Savage, what differences there are (safety location? mag cutoffs?), and which are usable for steel shot, which has driven me towards the 11-48 just to avoid all the confusion.


Dave, I use my Savage 720 with steel shot regularly. The barrel is 28" and was originally a full choke. I reamed it to a modified choke so that I could use it with steel shot.

I am not a fan of the Remington 11-48. I have had a couple and they were never as consistent or reliable as the Browning clone.

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JPM98VMI
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 171
Location: VA

Hopeful that the Savage 430 I picked up from https://www.simpsonltd.com/ falls in the category. The price was right at $315.00 knowing that it needs a recoil pad replacement with a spacer to make the LOP correct.Should have that project done the next few months.

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double vision
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:24 pm  Reply with quote
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With factory bismuth loads starting to evolve in a better direction it's hard to beat the functional quality to price ratio of a Remington 11. I had a real good run with a Model 11 on midwestern roosters, took a few ducks, and even an incidental hun and ruffed grouse with it. The M11 is an unheralded but quality workhorse, and with the new factory bismuth loads it makes a lot of sense to me as a duck gun
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