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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  16 ga shotgun, bismuth shot, and chokes for waterfowl ????
bustingclays
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:35 pm  Reply with quote
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Ok Gentlemen:

Time for 3 questions Question :

I have received an invite to a private waterfowl club in the Missouri River bottoms. My friend (the host) shoots a Browning A5 12 gauge with mod choke and 3 inch heavy shot shells and I could take my Beretta 390 or an American Arms sxs - both 12 gauges, but I would prefer to shoot 16 ga.

The hunting would be in blinds over decoys and most shots withn 40 yards (or preferably much less).

I have as shotgun options:

16 ga a5 with 26 inch IC barrel
16 ga cissytori with 28 inch barrels and screw in chokes

I am leaning to the sissytori with mod, ligh full chokes, but also have a complete set of extended chokes from skeet up to full.

I have multiple boxes of 16 ga bismuth in 4s and 6s - would shoot 6s in mod and 4s in light full. All shells 2 3/4 and 1 oz.

Your questions:

which gun
which chokes
which shot size

lay it on me......

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Dr. 16 Gauge
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:54 pm  Reply with quote
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I would use the Sweet with the IC choke. Classic! If they are decoying well I'd use the 6's for the first 2 shells with the 4's as the third shot.

Sounds like a great hunt!

Matt
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Terry Imai
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:03 pm  Reply with quote
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The problem with both steel and bismuth (not as bad as steel) is that they can be very touchy in regards to the amount of constriction. I imagine that since this is such a special shoot and you want to make the most of it, I throw in my comments. Take the time and pattern your Citori and find out what's works best and don't restrict yourself to the 40 yard line that I see most people do. Let's assume that you'll take your first shot at under 30 yards and your next shot at 35 yards. That sounds like either an I/C or light mod. For your longer shot, you may want to go with a mod choke. In both instances, you should check your patterns at whatever distances that you'll take your birds. BTW, at alot of clubs (that shoot pothole situations) is that they let a few "sacrificial" birds land first and wait for the other birds drop in. If you find your host doing it that way, you may find using your first shot for the birds dropping in and shoot the open choke for the birds that had landed and are trying get away. If you're undecisive re what gun to shoot, I would recommend taking both gun to your local sporting clays course and find out which one is hitting the straight incomer and the dropping shot. Even though I have a Browning A5, I find the drop in the comb is so low that I have a trouble hitting most things but esp the dropping shots....

Good luck....
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Thanks Gentlemen for the comments so far. I have shot many straights at skeet with both guns - either high or low gun - so am comfortable with both.

Let me toss in another idea - forgot about the Fox Model B in 16 ga with Mod/Full and 2 triggers. Have shot this at trap with good results.

Any thoughts....

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Jeff Mulliken
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:16 am  Reply with quote
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The 3rd shot in an A5 should be part of the decision.

Jeff
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:03 am  Reply with quote
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Bismuth shot is a bit lighter than lead and can be brittle. I'd opt for #4 buffered loads. You will probably need no more than a light Improved Mod choke in the top barrel and Mod in the bottom. Mod or even two light Improved mod chokes might be wiser than IC in the bottom tube. Ducks can take some killing and 1-1/4 ounce of #4 shot is a bit sparce past 35 yards. Also, #4 shot is about max for the 16. I've found a full choke only disrupts the outer ring of a pattern and causes patchy patterns because the #4 shot bridges a bit if constricted as much as #6 shot. # 5 shot would be a good option, but I do not know off hand if its available in bismouth loads.

I've shot my share of ducks with a double. In the company of others, restricting yourself to two shots per gaggle might be the polite thing to do. I doubt the third shot will be needed in your case. You are an accomplished shot and a seasoned birder, so relax and take them as they come to the deeks, rear bird first.
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Foursquare
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:58 am  Reply with quote
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One practical consideration I'd mention. Since you don't know the physical size and configuration of the blinds you'll be using, you may want to think long and hard about the relative ease of reloading an auto-loader in tight quarters vs the o/u. Most folks take exception to having the muzzles rotated inside the blind during each reload.

I'm not saying it will be impossible to load without bringing the gun into the blind, but I've been in blinds where the front height of the blind and very limited shoulder/head room would have made the wide arc of an o/u a definite detriment.

Then again, a sxs would be more akin to the autoloader since the open/closed muzzle arc is much smaller than the o/u.

Just food for thought, good luck.
Pete

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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:47 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
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Location: missouri

I would go with the A-5 and the #6 Bismuth to start with, #4's are an iffy proposition in many 16 ga guns some shoot #4's well and some don't. Personally I would try and find some Kent Ultimate Tungsten Impact 16 ga loads in #5 or 6 shot. That would be a very good choice with either gun.
I shoot Hevi Shot reloads in my 16 ga guns and they work very well on ducks out to 40 yards, just use no more than a Modified choke with either Hevi shot or Tungsten matrix, Tungsten shot patterns extremely tight and does not need much in the way of choke.
Some other advice, I have hunted a few of those clubs on the river bottoms and sometimes the shooting is a bit tough. We all love our 16 ga guns but they just aren't made for some of the shooting where you are going. If you have a 3"-3.5" 12 ga gun I would bring it along also, you may be a bit undergunned with your 16 if the birds are not cooperating fully. I hunted a lot of rice fields in SE MO, the 16 was sweet for birds when they were decoying, nothing like using your 16 to double up on crossing Teal. However I also backed up my 16 ga guns with my Gold 10 ga and some very long range steel duck loads, it may seem like overkill to many but when the ducks are not cooperating 1 3/8 oz of #2 steel smoking along at 1600 fps out of a 10 ga is the ticket to go with.
Enjoy your hunt.
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:53 am  Reply with quote
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16GaWaterfowler: Just for clarification, I don't think you can shoot hevishot in the Sweet 16 unless one has the invector barrel. At least Browning recommends one not too.

Matt
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:55 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
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Unless you reload you won't be shooting Hevi shot in any 16 ga gun as there are no factory Hevi loads as of yet. Kent states Tungsten Matrix is safe for all nitro proofed firearms however. I also would not recommend shooting Hevi in any older thin walled 16 ga gun, only modern guns like the newer model Brownings or Remington 1100's.
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

I know this is going to sound like complete heresy but we just came back from the Missouri River; we were duck/goose hunting with a very competent guide both above and below Pierre. Hope your luck is better than ours was on the ducks/geese ( we slayed the roosters !)
Though I shot almost all my pheasants with a Model 12 16 ga. full choke, I would leave the 16 at home while hunting waterfowl out there. we used 12 gauges; the waterfowl sometimes fly high, and there isn't very much in the way of 16 ga. ammo that's going to compete effectively with a 12 gauge with 3" Bismuth or Hevi-Shot. You want to be able to drop the birds dead, and the 12 ga. Hevi-Shot is simply superior at that. Just my 2 cents....

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