16ga.com ~ View topic

I was surfing the net and found an interesting site about SxS shotguns. Try www.sidebysideshotgun.com. It is af course an advertisement for Aspen Outfitting Co. but there is interesting information about box locks, sidelocks, gun fit, and ballanced loads for the sporting guns. In one of the segments, John Hollinger, the owner, admits that his favorite game gun is a 16 gauge SxS Spanish shotgun...weighing in at 6 lbs 3 oz. Just an interesting site for SxS fans.

Nice site. Thanks!

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Lots of good info Wink

This site is interesting but highly biased in my opinion. I have to chuckle at the info-mmercial article panning O/U shotguns as legitimate game guns. What a bunch of malarky. The so called "expert" is the guy selling these Ugartecheas. He then drops a couple of overused 'names" to back up his position.

Every time I hear this "SxS is best BS", I simply pick up any one of my small bore Citori field models and think back on the many hundreds of game birds from snipe to pheasant I've taken with them. I glance at my Ithaca 16 ga. short barreled pump and chuckle at the pompous self serving line of crap the author/marketeer is spewing.

In my opinion, its the indian and not the arrow. If someone likes SxS guns ( I happen to like them very much) then he or she should go get one. However, any dude with the "SxS attitude" who goes about looking down his nose at someone with a "lesser gun" is looking to get his clock cleaned shooting wise, by someone with a lesser gun but superior shooting skill. It never fails to delight me every time I see it happen. It usually ends up with "MR SxS" explaining that he is having a bad day or the sun was in his eyes or the moon is not in the right phase for him. Yeah, right. Laughing

Have the gun you like fitted so it shoots where you look. This is the most important step in good shooting. Then shoot the gun a lot. Put your money in some skeet or SC ammo. Once you master low gun skeet or low gun 5 stand, game birds are far easier to hit. you will realize very quickly its not the gun type but the gun fit and good, well practiced handling that matters most.

PS: John Browning did not design the Superposed O/U shotgun for target use. The first were designed as field guns. Shooters soon recognised the superior handling qualities and ruggedness of the design and adapted it for target shooting. The rest is history.

PPS: I also see this guy is a self professed ammo expert. He claims the English have killed more pheasant than any American upland hunter will ever know. I seriously doubt that. considering the size of this nation, and the wide distribution of the bird, plus the sheer numbers of hunters we have, I think this guy is out on a limb with this claim. Pheasant hunting in England is not for the common man. Its a very ritualized and structured pastime for the upper class. Well LA dE DA!!! Laughing

I agree with the square load idea to only a point. Modern one piece wads, modern hard shot, buffering, and slower propellants have had a tremendous impact on shotgun ballistics. Its not nearly as simple as the author claims, but then again, he's pushing his line of loads made up by J Menafee of Polywad. These loads shoot a pattern that he claims is a fat pancake. HMMM!! Can I get some ham and eggs with those pancakes please?. Rolling Eyes

Well, as Scolari pointed out in his original post, it IS an advertisement!

Yup, and a fairly clevor one at that. this guy would probably do well selling "swamp estates" with "Paunch" on the boob tube. Laughing

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

16 gaugeguy, you're as biased about your Citori O/U guns, as us Parker, Fox, and L.C. Smith guys are about our SxS's. Wink

All anyone needs to do is shoot a couple dozen fast flying clays and then a few pheasant. It becomes immediately apparent. Birds are both larger, slower, and easier to hit generally. A simple swing through approach will cover 80-90% of the shots we get. The rare incomer we can track for some distance or the occasional longer crossing shot are the exceptions. These two shots require more experience and skill. Perhaps the narrower plane of an O/U or a an auto or pump might be of some advantage precision wise.

Pheasant that flush inside of 30 yards and are going away are usually in very deep trouble in front of a well practiced shot. They are slow to accelerate once they hop launch themselves above the cover. Its this initial expolsive surprise and the cachaphony they create that startles the newer shooters. Old timers aren't generally startled and just wack em.

Grouse are usually found in in deep cover are tough to see because of their coloration. they can be a very tough target and seem very fast because of it.
They are also more explosive than a cock pheasant. However, catch them out in the open like around an old apple orchard, and you quickly realize they aren't really as fast as they seem.

Woodcock are very slow flyers, but like grouse, heavy cover can make them tricky. But they are actually very easy to hit.

Snipe are probably the most challenging bird. they are small, dully colored, take off quickly and accelorate low and fast. However, If you are ready for them, they are not anywhere near as difficult as a fast crossing clay at 25 or 30 yards or one that just skims the ground going away.

Quail are not fast either, but will flush in all different directions and in a staggered fashion. However, if you just lock on to one and take it quickly, you will realize its not really as fast as it might appear either. learn to do this quickly and doubles are far easier. Just stay focused.

If an SxS has any advantage at all, its because that wide image is easier for the brain to pick up on in relation to the primary focus point, the target. This is especially true in the lower light of early mornings and late afternoons during the typical hunting season. This factor and the easier targets game birds present works well together. however, this point does not get much support if one is using a narrower 28 or 410 double.

A simple white bandage around the end of a single barrel or an O/U will do the same thing. Any of the fatter day-glo fiber optic beads on the end will also do the same thing. Any little trick that helps the end of the barrel stand out some helps in low light or cover. It does not require two side by side barrels to get it done.

That is why I find it hard to think any gun is more or less of an advantage if it fits the shooter well, it has the right weight and balance for him, and he knows how to shoot it well.

Some folks just like the romance and nostalgia an SxS seems to have. I do. Like I said, I've come to really like them. However, any advantages today are more imagination based on one's taste for guns rather than reality.

A fairly priced double in reality would sell for about the same as a good O/U of the same basic class. Overpriced basic box lock doubles belong in the same class as any overpriced piece of sporting goods equipment. They are marketed to appeal to the folks who wish to appear to be part of the upper crust and will always overspend to obtain the illusion they crave and overdress for the hunt too. If it suits them, well then so be it. It does not make them a better shot automatically or superior either. Some just buy into it. They are mildly amusing to the really accomplished shotgunner.

But so what. Shoot what you like, enjoy yourself. But also achknowledge the skill of a fine game shot with an O/U or a single barreled gun too. Obviously, his choice is working well for him. Acting any other way makes one look foolish. Viva la differance.

Boy, did I start something!

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total*

No problem here Dave. In fact I did not se your post until you mentioned it. I'm just blathering on as usual. Perhaps my thoughts are still back on last Saturday. I went down to the Cape to hunt one of the stocked state WMAs. I went by myself and dogless this time just to get out and enjoy a beautiful morning. I managed to bag two birds by reverting back to old still hunting tactics and what I've learned about bird behavior over dogs.

While I was there, I came up on a younger middle aged couple. They were hunting over a pair of small black on white English setters and both were carrying what appeared to be higher end SxS 20 ga guns. They were both dressed like they'd stepped out of an Orvis ad to boot. The dogs were well trained and were doing a good job. One locked up at the edge of the woods near the entrance path to the field. The second backed the first well. The man flushed the bird, a small cock, and both of them emptied their guns into thin air.

I had stopped at the opposite end of the field to watch this scenario. I did not notice the rooster creeping up the side of the field away from the commotion and almost straight at me at first. I backed up slowly into the cover at the corner, froze, and let the bird come to me. When it got about 20 feet away, I popped out in its path and it rocketed across the field. I swung through and dumped it near the opposite tree line about 25-30 yards away. it was not a very hard shot, a slight quartering one going slightly left to right. I could have nailed sooner, but wanted to make sure it was going away from the other end of the field before I slapped the trigger. This was not a conscious process, just one born of long experience from hunting public ground.

The flush and the shot attracted the dogs. they came up and assisted with the retreive. Both were the ususal friendly pups setters tend to be. I let them sniff the bird and one mouthed it gingerly, licked my hand, and pranced around the scent for a second or two. I walked them back toward the owners who asked what type of gun I was shooting. I showed them my Ithaca 37. The man sniffed out that he thought pumps were for duck hunters and not suitable for pheasant. I smiled, responded that the dead bird in my hand did not seem to know the difference, and walked off past them in the direction of the missed bird as they went in the opposite direction further up the field looking for a new target to try for.

The dogs seemed to want to come with me and had to be called back to service. At least the dogs seemed to know what was up. Good dogs in my opinion.

16gg wrote: