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Two Pipe Shoot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:53 am  Reply with quote
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Anyone ever done a Tung Oil Finish and want to share their experience? My new friend in WA state sold me a buttstock that lengthens my model 12/16 gauge to 14” LOP and the wood is sanded and ready for finishing. The forend comes from a ‘97 which gives the gun a unique flair (via Molly’s dad Bill 😉), so I’m excited to finish the buttstock and install. Reno

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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
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Location: NCWa

I use Homer Formby Tung Oil on several wood items including gunstocks. If the wood is bare, as it sounds like yours is, I might consider a coat or two of Linspeed oil as filler so that it takes less than a zillion coats to get things smoothed. But otherwise, I've found tung Oil to be a handsome and durable finish that can be renewed without the refinished look.
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drcook
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Posts: 689

How about an oil that replicates the old Winchester red oil finish ? Years ago there was a guy named John Kay that did Winchester restorations. He replicated that old oil. I
know of the source where to get it. You can either buy it directly from the gentleman I deal with, or with this store on ebay. They are the same. There are pictures of the final result on eBay.

I finish my high end single shots with this stock oil and will be refinishing the Citiri 525 stock that I am putting on my 16ga Citori Hunter with this oil

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125516294923?hash=item1d395aab0b:g:SpgAAOSwlixfIMkp&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Pas3q3cSbnJu0Z7ngHMlmYUCZ%2F4F4EOLqcl3WuTIa4gaBxWETUzg2CKmP0wMGoML8kt9O2r0rHviBuce1LJpUKabhthhAFpEqMayAES8GBXZ0fGwaEDNn3wYCwk9wYIoLoCGcO1wU%2FDcRdDjHVjrXdR9HDC4a959CzQJ2%2FlIfhKtTMB5LTyUAHHwx2ch2LF4X0ARy9OvJPf%2FTsnD7bPZrc4rzYhW7L6R1oU5wl%2F%2FPcdyOzbyi8U1SEtv8WT7%2BIsIrqBa3paI87hcMf%2B%2BQb%2FunqtrcAZax6HRYNjObhfPH%2FC%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-LblZOfYg

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drcook
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Posts: 689

Typically you sand this in, but if you get creative and create some walnut dust from some scrap wood, that will seal the pores. Of course there is commercial pore filler, but I have not used that so I cannot attest to how it will turn out.

If it was me, I would get a piece of walnut that matches in color and some fine sand paper and make some dust.

I will be doing the this to fill the pores on an Ithaca 37 16 ga stock that I need to refinish, but don't want to sand down.

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Unfortunately, Winchester's original finish was a varnish, not an oil finish, nor anything "hand rubbed". I knew John Kay, and visited him in his shop. At that time, he was fairly near the end of his restoration business, and his life, as it turned out. He had a 55 gallon drum of his special "oil", which he complained to me he could no longer get to "harden" or cure, and he asked me if I knew what to do to make that happen, and if I wanted the stuff -- the whole barrel!!. Of course, at the time I was totally ignorant of wood finishes and could not help him. As a matter of fact, I still count myself as somewhat ignorant on gunstock/wood finishing, even though I have studied it and done a little of it -- only a little . . . guys like Mark Larson and many others are truly knowledgeable.

A great read I can recommend on the subject of wood finishes is the book "Understanding Wood Finishing", by Bob Flexner.

Now on the Original Poster's question on tung oil finishing --
1) Be careful of any product which has "tung oil" in the label. Usually it is not pure tung oil, and in many cases it won't even contain tung oil!
2) Real tung oil, as well as straight linseed oil, etc. takes a long time to harden, and only does so by absorbing oxygen from the atmosphere. "Boiled" linseed oil is not boiled, in the normal sense, but merely has had metallic salts added to make it harden in days, instead of weeks or more.
3) Pure tung oil should be a wonderful gunstock finish if the user is very patient and understands the limitations of oil. Pure tung oil has distinct advantages over linseed oil or boiled linseed oil.
4) I recommend polymerized oil finishes -- quicker and easier to apply, better protection for the wood, and still the possibility to have any desired sheen. Oil finishes offer little to no protection against moisture intrusion, but can be maintained and repaired with coatings of wax or more oil -- which will take a bunch of time to cure, and will wear off again. It takes a lot of "love and care" to use a real oil finish, even pure tung oil.

The last stock I finished I used Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish, by Rockler, the woodworking folks. I had it laying around, so I tried it. It's for floors, primarily. This is a tung oil based finish, and I think it might fall under the category of a polymerized oil, as are products like Tru-Oil, but it doesn't really act like Tru-Oil. Unlike Tru-Oil, Waterlox "cured/hardened/dried" fairly slowly, had good penetration into the wood, as pure tung oil would, but dried fairly glossy. It might be in the "wiping varnish" category -- I just don't know. I did not sand this finish in. I did not fill the grain with anything else before applying this finish. I'm a bit sorry I didn't, but with all the coats I applied, it did fill the fairly tightly grained wood pretty well -- I believe it is American black walnut from the 19th century, (Remington 1889 hammer double). I wiped on about ten or twelve (lost track) thin coats, and a gloss started to show up after about 6. I think it has been two years since I applied this finish, and for me it is too glossy. Now that that finish is as hard as it is going to get, I could rub it down with something like pumice or rottenstone to cut the gloss. Anyway, I don't really know exactly what Waterlox is; I only have my ideas, based on what Flexner says in his book.

I have used "pure" tung oil (Hope's, if I recall correctly), long ago (35years ago!) to refinish an entire walnut veneered piano!! It came out great -- a nice sorta flat, semi-gloss-ish "in-the-wood" finish -- seemed durable -- more so than my marriage was -- down the road went my ex, with our piano. Amusingly, amazingly and recently, my ex gave me a chance to buy that piano again, but I could not bear to. But I digress.

Back to "Winchester" finishes -- It's the reddish stain color that folks are after, whether they know it or not. Unless one is a total collector of "original" non-molested Winchesters, I cannot believe anyone would like to duplicate that original varnish finish. Yes, I'm sure the Winchester Custom Shop might have tried some different (oil type?) finishes -- there was a time they'd do anything. But if someone is after a "Winchester Finish" today, it generally means the product reputed to provide that finish simply contains the right color. Other than the color, it could be any of the so-called oil finishes. Want a good duplicate of the Winchester color? -- Herter's French Red stain -- long out of production, but I see something has come back with the same name.

Finally, the best advice I ever got for gunstock finishing was from a gunsmith local to my North Dakota home, when I was about 18 or 19. He said to give the de-whiskered stock a liberal coating of thinned spar varnish -- brushed on. Sand it off and then give it a brush coat of non-thinned spar varnish. Sand it off and repeat until the "fill" satisfies you. Then apply Tru-Oil according to it's instructions. That's basic and quick, protects the wood -- as much as you're going to -- and the gloss can be tuned up to your desires. I've seen this advice repeated decades later. If you want to use stain or dye (another whole "thing" to understand), do that after grain filling, and before finishing. Hopefully any "abrading" of a finish coat (note I avoid saying the generic and misleading word "oil") will not penetrate it enough to bother the stain, and hopefully if the abrasion does go through, the stain is deep enough in the wood to not show the effect. I did stain that Remington 1889 stock I mentioned above.

Best of luck. Show us your result. Thanks.

P.S. -- As I understand, contact with oxygen hardens these vegetable oils like linseed and tung -- not heat nor lack of humidity, nor more humidity nor atmospheric pressure nor anything else. I wonder if that cure time can be accelerated by enriching the oxygen content in a "drying cabinet". e.g. Seal it up (hermetically!!) and put in some oxygen -- possibly from the oxy cylinder of your oxy/acetylene welding gear. Hmmm . . . .

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drcook
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Dec 2012
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Here is how that red oil turns out, actually quite nice.

The 2nd picture brackets finished stocks above 2 of my rifles that were still in the raw wood

I did not take it to a high gloss finish, more of a satin finish. I do not know if continual coats would gloss it up, but a person could always do a test piece and see if Tru-oil or other product would go over top and make it more shiney if desired.




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putz463
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:16 am  Reply with quote
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My experience runs along the lines of AmericanMeat and MaximumSmoke. Did my homework on commonly available finishes, found that not everything in the name of the product is actually in the container. One must dig a little deeper if wanting a certain chemistry. Ended up with the simplest route by using some easily obtainable Formby's "tung oil", seem to remember it being in the polymerized category. Not quite a zillion coats (but close) later filled OK for my tastes, was easy to mess with and obtain more need be. Repair blending is a matter of some time with a sheet of scotchbrite between coats and a few swipes with a rag dipped in Formby's, good to go.

BTW; drcook, if those things shoot as nice as they look you're a fortunate person. Gorgeous case colors; you do that yourself as well? If so; container carbon infused or topical torch applied?

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drcook
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:40 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Dec 2012
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No I did not. They come from CPA in Pa. They are copies of Stevens 44 1/2's, made a little wider in order to use the same size barrel shank as a Win High Wall.

Yes they shoot.

I wish you all could see the finish that oil does when you take your time and do it correctly. They are much nicer in person.

5 shots. 200 yards with soule sights. The same kind of sights Quigley used. The movie was not exaggerating. I have shot them to 1000 yards.

I also have 1875 Sharps from Shiloh. Single shots (ok smokeless also) precision rifles are my other passion besides 16 ga shotguns.


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Two Pipe Shoot
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:35 am  Reply with quote
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“That’s good Shootin!”
-John Wayne, Big Jake
drcook wrote:
No I did not. They come from CPA in Pa. They are copies of Stevens 44 1/2's, made a little wider in order to use the same size barrel shank as a Win High Wall.

Yes they shoot.

I wish you all could see the finish that oil does when you take your time and do it correctly. They are much nicer in person.

5 shots. 200 yards with soule sights. The same kind of sights Quigley used. The movie was not exaggerating. I have shot them to 1000 yards.

I also have 1875 Sharps from Shiloh. Single shots (ok smokeless also) precision rifles are my other passion besides 16 ga shotguns.


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4setters
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:54 pm  Reply with quote
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About 25 years ago I did a number of Tung Oil finishes on a variety of guns and was satisfied with the results. I used Tru Oil as a base/pore filling coat and then multiple coats of Tung Oil. Lots of coats needed. This is my finish after about 20 years of fairly good use of a 37, still hanging in there quite well.


[img][url=https://flic.kr/p/2ig2Vcq] [/url]DSCF6312 by Michael Widner, on Flickr[/img]

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16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke
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4setters
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:04 pm  Reply with quote
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Here is another Tung Oil project on a Ranger 103-II that has been hunted with for about 20 years or so since completion.


[img][url=https://flic.kr/p/2i3nY3a] [/url]DSCF6912 by Michael Widner, on Flickr[/img]

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16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Agree with MaximumSmoke on details of Tung Oil.

Upon enthusiastic recommendation published in an outdoor magazine I undertook a Tung Oil refinishing of a 20 ga SKB 200.

In short it involved:
    Sanding down to 400 grit (or was it 600 grit?)
    Whiskering with damp cloth and blowtorch and more 400 grit
    Burnishing with oak dowel
    Filling pores with accumulated walnut dust/varnish mix
    Applying Tung Oil (pure)
    Rubbing by hand and drying couple days
    Applying more Tung Oil & rubbing in & drying
    Yet more Tung Oil & rubbing & drying
    Repeat last step couple more times


The result was splendid, wonderful light tan color, hard satin finish, great grain contrast.

But massive problem: It is not waterproof. Not even water resistant. An outing in wet conditions leaves an oily white slime on the wood, like leaving a cold drink on a Mahogany coffee table. So a cleaning and light reapplication is needed afterwards.

My linseed oil guns do not have the same problem with water as the Tung Oil. But linseed oil darkens the wood like an old creosote post,

I must admit it was a fun project. But Tung Oil is not for hunting guns. Pianos yes.

Good Luck,

B.
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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

Arts French Red Filler is the most amazing thing I have ever used with wood. On TS.com Song Dog posted not long ago that he used it on model 12 trap & skeet before he sent it to John Durkin @ Winchester custom shop for B carve patterns. In fact, John called him about the color, it was better than the stain he used @ Winchester. The thread was started about using Minwax wipe on oil and by coincidence I have moved to Minwax Antique Oil Finish (AOF) as well.

In the 70's through the early 90's many including me used Tru-Oil. I blame Weatherby with the high gloss finish that many associated with "quality". Browning followed suit with the bowling pin finish. By the 90's many wanted to go back to oil finishes as did I. Eventually settled on Daly's Ben Matte tung oil and or Waterlox Original Sealer Finish. Both done with a sand in finish. Much better it is an IN the wood finish instead of ON the wood finish. Up to a point.

For a number of years I did the Mike Campbell and Bosco McTavatch finishing method which is Waterlox original satin finish as a sand in fill finish and Daly's BenMatte Danish Tung Oil as a top coat. Yes same Mike Campbell that used to post on here. Never seen an advantage of the combo so stopped doing it. But pitty the next person that tries to strip the guns I did it with.

Never been a fan of fillers, stains or even dyes. Fillers especially are muddy and obscure the grain often with silica (sand). No way was I ever going to use a filler on a wood project let alone a gunstock.

Then about 10 years ago discovered Art's French Red. Talk about a game changer...

Always still stir it for a good 15 minutes. With the exception of hitting the checkering.

1949 16 ga. Ithaca 37 Field Grade with 2 light coats of Art's and 5 hand rubbed coats of Minwax AOF





It defines an in the wood finish to me. And has held up to rain, snow and a lot of carry and handling for a decade with no problems.



I have thought of trying Timberlux for a finish but really have a hard time justifing it. Spent half a century doing things the hard way already.

Last fall custom ordered a 16 ga. Iside though IFG. Came in 6 weeks ago and Italy messed up the order, they forgot the wood upgrade. So they sent me some wood options to pick from



IFG took pity on me because FAIR messed up the order and let me have a really good discount on pick of the litter for an in stock 28" coin finish (custom order is 30" BT CC) and I selected this one. In 16 ga. as well of course



Because I KNOW that I can use Art's and make it look a lot nicer when I am done with it.

Art's French Red is all I use anymore. They also make a walnut filler but I have never used it. French Red nails it for me. Still using Minwax Antique Oil Finish (AOF) as well.
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