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| < 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Cheddites stick in chamber, fail to extract, fet, any help? |
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:03 am
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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The ribs are there to aid smooth feeding.
Shotshells expand and seal the full length of the hull, ribs or no ribs. If the shotshell did not seal you would have powder gasses escaping into the receiver and possibly into the eyes of the shooter on break open shotguns.
Most of my shotguns are repeaters, including a Model 12 with a 2 9/16" chamber made in 1916 and it is in original condition. I use the same hulls as you do and there are no issues with feeding or extraction. I don't have any Winchester CF hulls. The hull I use the most in my Model 12 are Fiocchi's, because I got them on a deal and they are the correct length and they are ribbed. |
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Mark |
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:08 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
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Location: San Diego
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| Dogchaser37 wrote: |
The ribs are there to aid smooth feeding.
Shotshells expand and seal the full length of the hull, ribs or no ribs. If the shotshell did not seal you would have powder gasses escaping into the receiver and possibly into the eyes of the shooter on break open shotguns.
Most of my shotguns are repeaters, including a Model 12 with a 2 9/16" chamber made in 1916 and it is in original condition. I use the same hulls as you do and there are no issues with feeding or extraction. I don't have any Winchester CF hulls. The hull I use the most in my Model 12 are Fiocchi's, because I got them on a deal and they are the correct length and they are ribbed.
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Look close. they are not external bulges/ribs, they are grooves into the hull. You can see it best at the rolled part of the crimp. I suspect the roll crimp section of the start crimp distorts/stretches the plastic, negating the grooves. And leaving a slick ring around the hull, which is where they glue themselves to the chamber. It was very obvious on the Federals that the other shooter was having get stuck in his O/U.
I had even considered making a flat knurled tool to heat up and 'brand' some new groves into the rolled area.
Consensus in my two threads here, as well as other spots on the net, is either "Load Remingtons", or polish the chamber. The chamber variation can account for why not all guns have problems. I polished. I'll know by this time tommorrow. |
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It's not how many breaths you take, it's how many times you have been breathless.
Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun! |
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:33 am
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Let's think about this from a practical point of view.
Hulls do not melt or get stuck in any chamber, that has been properly maintained.
Think about the millions of rounds of shotshell ammo run through target guns. There are times when my shotgun barrel(s) is so hot that you can't touch it without burning yourself yet the action, whether pump, semi auto or break open ejects the empties just fine.
I know you don't believe this but the ribs on shotshells are there for smooth feeding and the hull seals from the breach end to the crimp. If it didn't you would have powder residue in the receiver and possibly on your face.
I hope you get things working with more than one ammo brand.
Have a good day of shooting! |
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Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:36 am
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1257
Location: Nebraska
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My M12 is a short chambered gun, and hasn't hung onto any case yet. Last year I reamed it to 2 3/4" and cleaned it up with emery cloth on a dowel chucked into a drill.
Your finding that a shortened shell does not stick indicates the problem lies in that last forward portion of the chamber and while polishing seems a good starting point I wonder if it might be best to start with something a bit more coarse and work down in stages. In the event there is pitting or rust up there holding onto the plastic, polishing that surface would not be as effective as cutting through to a uniformly smoother surface and polishing that. |
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Bore, n. Shotgun enthusiast's synonym for "gauge" ; everybody else's synonym for "shotgun enthusiast." - Ed Zern |
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Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:02 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego
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| Dogchaser37 wrote: |
Let's think about this from a practical point of view.
Hulls do not melt or get stuck in any chamber, that has been properly maintained.
Think about the millions of rounds of shotshell ammo run through target guns. There are times when my shotgun barrel(s) is so hot that you can't touch it without burning yourself yet the action, whether pump, semi auto or break open ejects the empties just fine.
I know you don't believe this but the ribs on shotshells are there for smooth feeding and the hull seals from the breach end to the crimp. If it didn't you would have powder residue in the receiver and possibly on your face.
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'But why don't AAs or the high grade remingtons need ribs? Ribs are because of a difference in the plastic. But tell me why the hull seals in spite of the ribs for Fed & Cheds? Nay, the metal is what seals, as long as the internal pressure holds it out. Same as centerfire ammo.
Virgin Cheds didn't stick at all, for the first 8 shots. Then many stickers. Good thing I brought a box of factory RGLs, which did not stick at all. 1 1/8 3 1/4 dr, a bit more than I like. My loads were more gentle, and no bloopers. So, Dog, you are telling me my chamber got fouled in 8 shots? Nah, it's the plastic. |
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It's not how many breaths you take, it's how many times you have been breathless.
Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun! |
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Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:05 pm
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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I am glad you fixed the problem.
Have a good one. |
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Mark |
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Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:29 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego
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| Dogchaser37 wrote: |
I am glad you fixed the problem.
Have a good one.
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Do you call 8 rds fixed?
Next I'll try slipping 1x fired hulls over a spud in my lathe, and knurling them in the zone where I think the problem lies. EXTRA ribs, works for my girl friend. |
_________________
It's not how many breaths you take, it's how many times you have been breathless.
Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun! |
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:50 pm
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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| I don't call 8 rounds fixed, but the way you are going about this, it seems as though it is about as fixed as it's gonna get. |
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Mark |
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Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:03 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
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Location: San Diego
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| Dogchaser37 wrote: |
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I don't call 8 rounds fixed, but the way you are going about this, it seems as though it is about as fixed as it's gonna get.
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Which part of "Cheddites are a known problem" do you not want to understand? Not just in my gun. IT'S THE HULL.
I'll continue to share with you guys as I proceed on this diagnostic oddessy. |
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It's not how many breaths you take, it's how many times you have been breathless.
Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun! |
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Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:46 pm
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Hello casebro
Pleased you are here, what may we do to make you happier?
Mike
I have no problems with Cheddite hulls in my O/U and SXS guns
Now for my two Win Model 12, I do have a stronger extractor spring and new extractors.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/winchester/shotguns-win/12-win?page=5
ALSO even though the Mdl 12 are marked 2 3/4 I use 2 1/2 inch ammo because the gun is based on the 20 ga receiver and the diagonal length pf the 16 gauge 2 3/4 hull is a bit long for the ejection slot. |
Last edited by skeettx on Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:17 pm
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Thank you Mike!!  |
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Mark |
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:40 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego
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| skeettx wrote: |
Hello casebro
Pleased you are here, what may we do to make you happier?
Mike
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Tell me please, how to make my 2 1/2" chedites work in MY gun. 1934 2 3/4 M12.
Sure, lots of people run Win Promos(Cheddite) in their guns. And some do have problems.
I have M12s and an M25 in 12 ga. ONE doesn't like the Win Promos.
Nah, it's the plastic.
And Dog, so far as the ribbed plastic sealing, half of the RGLs i shot today have 'carbon tracking' down the side. Looks like carbon, probably the plastic scorched from the gasses. Not sealing until the metal base. Go look at soem old hulls for the smutz on the side, even STS or AAs.
And ALL of the RGLs have cracks. RGLs are crap plastic too. |
_________________
It's not how many breaths you take, it's how many times you have been breathless.
Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun! |
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:45 pm
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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casebro,
Thank you for the lesson, I'll be sure not to forget it. |
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Mark |
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:45 pm
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Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 467
Location: SC PA
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Having been a relatively quiet member of this site for over a decade, I've learned a lot and come to my own conclusions about who knows their stuff and who just pretends. IMO, Dogchaser is in the first group.
Oftentimes, it serves one well to know what you don't know. "... Some men you just can't reach".
Marc |
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"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" - Vito Corleone
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:56 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego
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| Upland Carpenter wrote: |
Having been a relatively quiet member of this site for over a decade, I've learned a lot and come to my own conclusions about who knows their stuff and who just pretends. IMO, Dogchaser is in the first group.
Oftentimes, it serves one well to know what you don't know. "... Some men you just can't reach".
Marc
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There are limits to everyone's knowledge, even Dogchaser's.
And you know NOTHING of me or my qualifications. But I'll give a hint: http://imageevent.com/bigchriscase Please scroll through all 25 items on the pull down menu before passing judgement on whether I might have troubleshooting skills.
Or maybe Dogchaser is a Plastics engineer? |
_________________
It's not how many breaths you take, it's how many times you have been breathless.
Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun! |
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