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< 16ga. Guns ~ Gunsmithing Question, Tightening action with dolls head ext |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
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Is there anything specifically problematic with tightening an action which has a dolls head extension fitted to the rib?
I need another project gun in the safe like I need a 4ga punt gun, but for some reason I'm contemplating a vintage gun that needs some attention, again..
Action has some play, and would need attention. But it has a Doll's Head extension, and was wondering if that complicates the process. Gun is very slightly off face. |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:22 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9469
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Are you going for the forever fix or the shoot and have fun fix?
For the latter, I use a brass shim, takes about 10 minutes and the gun
is up shooting on face and smiling
Mike
interesting to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXbrmmiSngw |
_________________
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USAF RET 1971-95 |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:17 pm
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Joined: 30 Jul 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Dayton Wa.
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Great video Mike --------- Thanks |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:50 pm
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Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 398
Location: Virginia
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16'er wrote: |
Is there anything specifically problematic with tightening an action which has a dolls head extension fitted to the rib?
I need another project gun in the safe like I need a 4ga punt gun, but for some reason I'm contemplating a vintage gun that needs some attention, again..
Action has some play, and would need attention. But it has a Doll's Head extension, and was wondering if that complicates the process. Gun is very slightly off face.
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I doubt if the doll's head extension would necessarily complicate the tightening process more than a gun with a simple rib extension, but I'd like to hear what some of the gunsmiths here on the forum say.
I don't know if you need another project gun or not, but maybe you should think about that 4-gauge punt gun. It could really be useful on those Rappahannock River ducks! |
_________________ C&R FFL since 2002 |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:54 pm
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Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI
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Apparently fine gun making and repair requires you wail the tar out of some fine mill work....
I'm not going to argue the guys method, hes the old crusty English dude with the fancy wooden handles tools....and he surely charges plenty for it when he does it.
Seems odd to be wailing the tar out of hard steel to reform it, then filing it down to fit again...seems to me it would weaken it.
If you did that with copper water pipe, then turned the water back on at typical 45-60psi, youd have a leak in minutes.
I wonder what 6 months of Winchester AA target loads would do to that fix... |
_________________ Good luck & great hunting,
-Danny Pratt |
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Posted:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:03 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 363
Location: connecticut
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The brass shim treatment works and can be replaced ! Cheap also! Never had a dolls head shotgun but my 12ga nitro hunter dbl responds well to the brass shim treatment! Do not recall how many shell have gone through this repaired gun but must be several boxes and its only slightly looser. May put a new shim in today if I have a min or two between snow blowing!
Art |
_________________ A thing of beauty is ajoy forever! |
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Posted:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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I prefer to replace the joint pin with the correct over sized drill rod. The shim repair is also workable as long as you know the little thing is in there. I have had them fall out during cleaning and had to make another on the fly. A bit of soda can often is just enough to take up the slack. |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:31 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
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dannypratt wrote: |
Apparently fine gun making and repair requires you wail the tar out of some fine mill work....
I'm not going to argue the guys method, hes the old crusty English dude with the fancy wooden handles tools....and he surely charges plenty for it when he does it.
Seems odd to be wailing the tar out of hard steel to reform it, then filing it down to fit again...seems to me it would weaken it.
If you did that with copper water pipe, then turned the water back on at typical 45-60psi, youd have a leak in minutes.
I wonder what 6 months of Winchester AA target loads would do to that fix...
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Some cringe factor watching that video for me as well. Thinking about it, I'd guess there is some work hardening that makes this 'adjustment process' have some stability over time.
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I'm most likely going to try to purchase the gun in question, start with shimming the hook/pin interface and see how it handles/shoots for me. Then I'll know if further investment would be warranted. Thanks for the replies! |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:18 am
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Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 147
Location: N. Georgia
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There can be different points of wear that causes the looseness. I had a Sauer Daly that was about .003" loose, the issue was uneven wear on forward edge of the sliding underbolt where it contacted the barrel lump. Welding a sliver of metal, and polishing to get the right fit solved the issue. The fit on the doll's head was fine before and after and the gun was tight and on face.
I had a second gun that was sloppy loose, about .012" and it required welding onto the barrel hook and filing to get the right fit. A Greener crossbolt was involved and I was told it was somewhat difficult to get the crossbolt to fit flush, but it looked fine after the work was finished. The gun locked up tight as a bank vault with no play at all.
I like Jack Rowe's practical approach in the videos, filing and polishing that barrel lump afterwards made for a neat and professional job. With Jack's passing a few years back, the pool of knowledge about the repair of double guns was greatly diminished. |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:59 am
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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Welding the hook can be dicey on soldered barrels. I have a technique where part of the preparation is to put wet rags in the first half of the barrels, place a sheet metal shield over the lumps covering the flats after spraying the chamber end with spatter release. the whole deal goes in a vise with a welding jig. The weld is made with .o28 steel wire in argon. the weld is started on the jig run across the hook and over to the other side of the jig. after it cools the jig plates are ground off with a dremmel tool. then the filing begins one stroke at a time until the gun just starts to close. this is a lot of work and time. the new joint pin is easier and just as good |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:50 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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16'er wrote: |
Is there anything specifically problematic with tightening an action which has a dolls head extension fitted to the rib?
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No. |
_________________ Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com
The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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Posted:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:17 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
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1908 Sauer hammer gun in hand now. 5.9lbs. |
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Posted:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:20 pm
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Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 147
Location: N. Georgia
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16'er wrote: |
1908 Sauer hammer gun in hand now. 5.9lbs.
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Post pics when you get a chance! |
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Posted:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:08 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
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steve f wrote: |
16'er wrote: |
1908 Sauer hammer gun in hand now. 5.9lbs.
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Post pics when you get a chance!
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Will try to post a couple of initial pics tomorrow if I get by the office. |
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Posted:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:05 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
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Poor lighted pics. Needs some love, for sure... Right-side lock likely needs a spring replaced. |
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