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Joined: 05 Nov 2016 Posts: 189 Location: Montana

In my peabrain, THE most important factor is exposure to wild birds, at a young age, and with regularity.
Those of us who live in the west are blessed with that opportunity.
It's why I live where I do. Glad so many don't - but that's a different topic...
I have no idea how bird dog guys "train" dogs without that exposure.
I guess that's why there are legends in the dog training world, it's what they
do - train.
I'll chase my dogs across the Montana prairies, coulees, and mountains for hours three days straight.
But I'm a lazy bastard and a horrible task master. For me a happy, sleep in the bed, float on the raft, wild bird familiar, self trained dawg is where it's at.
It's why I've settled on Grifs, they fit me.
Hope you find your next good fit and you both have a long happy run.....

I have had Brits, now GSP’s. I have hunted behind English Setters, Grifs and a Lewellyn.

I believe a dog that is properly introduced to wild birds and the more birds the better, will turn out just fine regardless of the breed. Mtbirder has it right.

I love the German Shorthaired Pointers, but my friend’s Lewellyn is very pretty on point and IF I was hunting grouse and woodcock most of the time, I would have to consider that brand of setter.

Both my setters retrieve a lot of the trial dogs are never allowed to retrieve. The reasoning is that it will encourage breaking. My first PP was an incredible retriever he lived for it however he would bump a lot of birds. As long as they hunt dead or point downed birds I'm fine with that. I need them to find and point birds. I can pick them up. If you want a hunting companion to hunt with most dogs will work. In the east the bird numbers are thin you need a dog to search and range to be successful. I don't need a dog to find birds I would have found myself. My setter ran 18 miles on Sunday up in St. Lawrence county we found 5 birds I would have found 1 without him. When I'm sitting in beaver pond shooting Wood ducks all the dogs love swimming and retrieving ducks but the Pudelpointer is much easier to hide. Like all the other posters have stated it takes time to train the dog and each dogs has different strengths. You have to decide what you really want. Are you hunting wild birds or preserve birds?

Grand16,

Having trained and owned many different breeds of dogs I suggest you do your home work as to what gun dog fits your hunting needs best, and fits into your family the way you want it too.

If you are mainly a Grouse and Woodcock hunter, I recommend either the Gordon Setter or a Ryman Setter for the Grouse woods. Having owned a great Small Munsterlander male who produced both feather and fur on an incredible scale, I do recommend these dogs highly also. If you are a pure hunter, these dogs produce game and birds, and track and retrieve wounded/downed game with incredible discipline. Most are a nice size to carry out of the woods, in case the dog is injured also.

Also look at the Pointers, a serious bird hunting machine, most do work big and produce birds on a serious scale. Having trained lots of these dogs, I recommend professional training if you purchase one.

There are many Versatile gun dogs that make great companion hunters, and they have been tested to assure both health and genetic ability. My brother just picked up a new GSP pup and is quite happy with her. I purchased a new Gordon Setter pup from Clearcut Kennel where they breed Gordon's for Grouse hunting purposes. The dogs are completely different, one being a Versatile dog and the other a pure Grouse dog, however they both get the job done quite well.

When purchasing a new American bred gun dog pup or started dog it's important to see the sire and Dame hunt if you can. Genetics is most important where gun dogs are concerned. Make sure of what you are purchasing, both health and natural passed down genetic imprint.

There are lots of good hunting dog breeds to pick from, purchase from a reputable breeder that guarantees the health of his animals. Also home security is another benefit of owning a good dog, especially a versatile dog like a SM, Weimar or a GSP.

If you are a Duck and Goose hunter, take a good look at the Chessie dogs, they are incredible gun dogs, fantastically loyal and big time home security, their hunting/retrieving & tracking abilities are exceptional.

I am looking into the Poodle Pointers, just because I have never owned one myself, and want to see how well they can handle Ruffed Grouse. Something to consider as you decide also.

Have fun purchasing a new gun dog!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Our latest addition to Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers, a Gordon Setter Grouse Dog pup from Clearcut Kennels.
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 120 Location: South Dakota

Thanks everybody for your replies.

Pudelpointer I have just started hunting grouse and woodcock with the majority of my bird hunting before that was pheasants released by the state. Recently I have found a couple places close by that have decent numbers of grouse and a couple other areas Within an hour or little less. I’ve even kicked a few grouse and woodcock on the piece of property I own. But that hunting is very new for me.

Mtbirder keep bragging about Montana and you might find yourself with a new neighbor.

Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 17 Location: Wisconsin

wow...you know how to open a can of worms!
I'm a Llewellin guy. Love them. But...honestly...it really depends upon WHAT YOU LIKE TO WATCH in the field. They all have good noses (if from a good line) and they all love to hunt.
1. Flusher or pointer? That's the first and most basic question.

2. How important is retrieving to you? Like it or not...the setters mostly don't come by retrieving as naturally as some other breeds. They will learn, and many do a damn nice job, but it usually takes a little more effort.

3. What kind of coat do you want to deal with? Setters and Britts handle really cold weather better than pointers and shorthairs. However....you'll spend some time picking burrs and you'll be giving haircuts during the warm months. Also...setters and britts don't handle hot weather the way short haired dogs do.

4. long tail or docked tail? Again..this is about estetics. I WANT to see the long, cracking tail of a setter. For others its not important.

Whatever you get, you'll be watching it for 10-13 years. They'll all point birds, so go to a NSTRA trial and watch some dogs...discover what you like. My humble opinion...For a first-time pointing dog owner, the easiest to train might be a shorthair from a close-working line. Nice dogs, easy coat to care for, easy to train, and they retrieve more naturally than most setters. I'm not a big fan because I'm not fond of the look...but I've hunted over some great shorthairs and they are moslty sweethearts.

Hope this helps! Go see some dogs run...shopping is half the fun!
Trail

Joined: 05 Nov 2016 Posts: 189 Location: Montana

"Setters and Britts handle really cold weather better than pointers and shorthairs".
Shocked

Talk about opening a can o' worms Very Happy

Tell my Montana girls who just hunted New years day, single digits.....
Seriously, PP's, Grifs, Drat's, GWP's all handle cold weather just fine, and no haircuts in the summer.
The day I ever ask which anything on the www will probably never come.
It is interesting how all of us egomaniacs who swear by our experience and OUR dogs take this stuff personally - but it's because we love 'em. This stuff is fun to read.
And purists are especially special.
But then again, I bought all my shotguns off the shelf new......

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 1113

I've got two big male German Shorthaired Pointers and I've hunted them all over the USA from the Mexican border to the Canadian border and just about every state west of the Mississippi river. Hard to imagine a more "do everything" breed.

The older dog on the left is one of those with very short hair and not much on the belly. I'll sometimes in extremely cold, wet conditions put a fleece vest on him, mainly to make me feel better plus the blaze orange is easier to see in the snow than that white coat. The younger dog on the right has a quite thick coat and sits outdoors in his kennel with temps in the teens and 20's. In warmer weather I run the young dog early in the mornings or later in the evenings so he doesn't get overheated, but I never worry about him being too cold. Now me, I can get too cold quite easily.

riflemeister,

Having owned some real great GSP's and other versatile dogs also, there is one that IMO tops the list, IMO the Small Munsterlander sits at the top of the pure hunting dog list. If you have never owned one, you might want to acquire one, they do hunt well with the GSP's.

Please do not think I am slighting the GSP in any way, my Rosie was top dog here in the Grouse woods for many many years, she did everything perfectly also.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Pine Creek Rosie, GSP incredible Grouse Dog, center of the shadow box with a few of her large Grouse tails surrounding her. A dog with few if any equals at producing feather and fur for the table. Sampson my SM male was her equal, however he was a faster dog, until the snow reached 18". Then Rosie was top dog once again.

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You know......GSP's may not have the most classic looking points.....but they sure are effective, they sure don't give two wits about what is between them and the bird, they sure have great big personalities and they sure as heck do not have an off switch if they even think it is time to hunt.

Make mine a GSP any day of the week!!

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 1113

The GSP's points may not look as classy as a setter with the tail feathers blowing in the wind, but if intensity is high on your list, there is nothing wrong with them either.

Joined: 05 Nov 2016 Posts: 189 Location: Montana

Intensity??
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Enthusiasm??
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Cunning public land wild roosters is all they know, and they know them well....
I digress - but like I said before, fun topic.....

Joined: 05 Nov 2016 Posts: 189 Location: Montana

Because I truly have no idea -
Are the "versatile" breeds relatively less popular in the East?
From my viewing this forum, seems to me the setters, traditional pointers and various small flushers get the attention on the right side of the country.
The versatile are mostly big running dogs - not necessary back there due to smaller country, or have they just not "caught on", or am I off altogether?
I have never been west of Wisconsin in my life - so have no idea.....

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Tough to pick a dog for someone else. I’ve run Setters my whole life, but, they are simply not for just anybody. I’ve had Setters that could and did put labs to shame on retrieve.
Current Setter is about 40 pounds, weak on retrieve, gang busters on everything else. High energy, needs about a five mile run daily, doesn’t seem to matter how I feel about it. My personal experience is that the nose on a Setter or Pointer is far more sensitive than most other dogs. Had my dogs pointing birds while labs were oblivious to what was happening, or, the bird.
A lab is a dog for a guy with a lot on his plate. If it likes feathers, and comes when it is called, you’ve got most of what a lab we be, the rest is just polish.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 05 Feb 2015 Posts: 267 Location: New Braunfels TX

The only problem with setters, they are so stand offish and not friendly at all Rolling Eyes

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Razz