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robp
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:33 am  Reply with quote
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ND's current hunting law for trespass is that you can hunt private land that is not specifically posted No Hunting. Our current law has stood for ninety years. That may change with SB-2315, just introduced in the ND State Legislature.



If you hunt ND then the ND sportsmen need your help and you will help yourself too. Last summer I attended a series of meetings held with the ND Stockmen's Asc. , ND Game & Fish, and various state hunting organizations.



The Stockmen are bring a NO HUNTING/NO TRESPASS bill into the legislature that would automatically post all private land. It failed last session by a 2/3 majority. This bill is regularly defeated in previous sessions but this time it is being heard in the Ag Committee, instead of Natural Resources. Pretty tricky. No doubt it will pass in committee and go to a floor vote. It is the same blueprint used last year in Idaho by ag groups there to shut down access.



THE BILL IS BEING FAST TRACKED THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE TO BYPASS SPORTSMEN OPPOSITION.



If passed, public hunting access will crumble as 93% of ND is private land. The Stockmen's Asc. are working on the theory that you don't have to ban guns, just make ammo inaccessible and get the same result. Then public hunting in ND will be pay-to-play. Money is the motivator.



The ND Wildlife Federation, ND Bowhunter's Asc., United Sportsmen of ND, ND Sportsmen's Etree and many county and local wildlife clubs oppose this bill. But we need help.



The dollars visiting sportsmen spend at local businesses while here make an impact with legislators as all legislative districts receive tourism revenue during hunting season. Food, beverage, lodging, & fuel are big expenses.



The bill # is SB-2315. Underlined portions are the new bill language if you wish to read it:

https://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/66-2019/documents/19-0896-01000.pdf



Let our State Senators know your thoughts on SB-2315, No Hunting/No Trespass, polite and concise. This is the email block for all ND State Senators:



hcanderson@nd.gov , jbakke@nd.gov , bbekkedahl@nd.gov , raburckhard@nd.gov , dclemens@nd.gov , dcook@nd.gov , kdavison@nd.gov , ddever@nd.gov , jdotzenrod@nd.gov , madwyer@nd.gov , jayelkin@nd.gov , rerbele@nd.gov , rfors@nd.gov , jgrabinger@nd.gov , jheckaman@nd.gov , khogan@nd.gov , dhogue@nd.gov , rholmberg@nd.gov , jkannianen@nd.gov , jklein@nd.gov , kkrebsbach@nd.gov , ckreun@nd.gov , olarsen@nd.gov , dklarson@nd.gov , galee@nd.gov , jlee@nd.gov , lluick@nd.gov , rmarcellais@nd.gov , tmathern@nd.gov , scottmeyer@nd.gov , jmyrdal@nd.gov , eoban@nd.gov , doehlke@nd.gov , aosland@nd.gov , dpatten@nd.gov , mpiepkorn@nd.gov , npoolman@nd.gov , lrobinson@nd.gov , jroers@nd.gov , kroers@nd.gov , drust@nd.gov , dgschaible@nd.gov , rsorvaag@nd.gov , jkunruh@nd.gov , svedaa@nd.gov , tmwanzek@nd.gov , rwardner@nd.gov





Your help is appreciated by most everyone who hunts in ND. If you frequent other hunting boards pass this on.
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Savage16
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:57 am  Reply with quote
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:19 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

Thanks for posting this, robp.
When I showed up in MT 34 years ago, a similar no posting law was on the books. That ship has long sailed.
ND bird hunters have been lucky it lasted this long in their state.
It's a far different time we live in now - when it comes to these issues - I would argue the change has been for the worse. The same powers that claim to want to protect our 2'nd amendment are the very one's behind a lot of the anti access, anti habitat, anti North American Model of Wildlife Management... BS. Our political climate is a rough thing today - for outdoorsmen.
I hope enough ND guys show up for this issue to make a difference - all the non res comments in the world won't be enough without resident participation.
Nothing may be able to stop this bill as it is.....
Montana has bad legislative shit happening right now as well - sportsmen need to be involved and vocal.
Lotta people cover their ears and scream blah blah when politics come up.
But politics dictate how we sportsmen get to utilize our resources.
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sneem
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:12 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 457

It's private land not public land. Landowners have a right to determine who has access to their property. Kansas has had this law for years. If you want to hunt on someone's land, you are required to get permission. The landowner can post it, require written permission, sign up for the Walk in hunting program, or allow anyone to hunt there. My land is open by written permission. I do not want to deny hunting, I just want to know when people are on it. Imagine wide open access and without your knowledge someone enters and breaks a leg on a fence. Lawsuit.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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sneem,

Good and bad aspects to this private land hunting law. Here in Pa once you purchase a Pa hunting license, if you get hurt on private land it's the hunters own responsibility, no legal action can be taken against the land owner. Each state has it own game laws however.

I am a big supporter of open hunting lands, however the land owner should give permission for hunting to take place on his own private property. The state does not own the property, IMO any law giving the general public access to your private land without my permission I have a problem with.

Here in Potter/Tioga, Pa I had to post my private land because it became so dangerous, (bullet holes in my log cabin from Deer hunters), also I did not want people using my property without my permission. I want to know who is going on and off my land. Now I do have my own security system set up on my property, to insure my families safety.

Pine Creek/Dave
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dannypratt
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:56 am  Reply with quote
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Got to agree with PCD and Sneem...

Its private land, someone owns it and pays taxes for it. Every year. It's not our right as hunters to be able to hunt anywhere we choose. Here in MI they closed off private lands in the 60s, however, commercially owned forest lands are open to all for no cost or writs. There is a program here that allows farmers/landowners to open thier property to all sportsmen as well, they get a tax break, DNR cuts some roads/trails and the land owner can farm or timber or mine at he sees fit while it is under open policy.

It works well, but naturally, being able to hunt private land by written permission isnt so bad either, it let's you know who the owner is, and let's the owner know that your responsible, and hopefully, trespassers aside, it allows you to hunt your own area without any interruptions etc.

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wahoo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
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Iím a land owner, and I do not wish to have a but load of folks trapsing around without permission on my property. However, I do not have my property posted. If I find someone on my property uninvited, we have a powwow then and there. If I deem it an honest mistake or ok otherwise, no issues. If not I direct them to the nearest exit. Here in NC, we consider private property just that, private. Ironically though, many of my and previous generations did not consider it necessary to post private property because around here folks generally ask permission to enter your land beforehand. Posted signs generaly say that one is inhospitable. If it becomes a problem where people are abusing private property rights, then posting the land becomes necessary. Here in NC, as long as the land is not posted, the game wardens have no say. However if it is posted, the warden will right a ticket if you do not have written permission on your person. I prefer that method, I should not be made to provide evidence to the state that I allow access to my property if I donít feel like having it posted, which is what that Dakota law proposes. However if I donít want Joe general public on my land and itís an issue for me, I can post it. Whatís so hard about that, that they need a new law. In NC, you only have to paint a tree or post with a purple stripe if you donít want to put up a sign.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Wahoo,

I agree with you 100%. The other thing I will not due is try to influence Game laws in a state I do not live in. I believe the residents of each state have the responsibility to influence their own Game Commissions, without outside interference. The residence of each state have the responsibility to influence game laws, they way they want them to be written. Over the years we have had many people from out our state try to influence the Pa Game laws. These hunters do not live in our state, and should have absolutely no say as to our Pa Game laws. IMO the federal government should have no say either.

All game laws should be made independently by each individual state government, without outside interference of any kind. When hunting in a state you are not a resident of, find out what the laws are and abide by the state game laws.

The only time IMO an out of state hunter should have any say about state law is when the state violates the US Constitution, with Unconstitutional laws, especially gun laws, that limit carry certain fire arms. No state has the right to make Unconstitutional laws of any kind.

Pine Creek/Dave
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Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Chicago
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:34 pm  Reply with quote
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I used to own a pretty good chunk of land in Michigan and I still hunt there for 6 weeks every fall. If the land is not posted someone can hunt on the land but is required to leave if the owner asks them to leave. If posted you need the permission of the owner to hunt there. There is so much public land in Michigan to hunt there really isnít much need to trespass unless you stumble onto the land by mistake.

I understand not wanting folks on your property and if you donít want folks walking, fishing, hunting, snowmobiling, motorcycle riding etc then post it. I posted and fenced 220 acres because I didnít want folks to figure out I had a 30 acre private lake filled with large brook trout that spawned in the stream that fed the lake and I also didnít want them bird hunting on the property.

Across the border in Wisconsin I believe the requirement is the hunter has to figure out if the land is private and even if not posted you are trespassing. FWIW I donít think that is a very good system because there is a lot of private land mixed in with the state and national forests and absent a GPS mapping device it is pretty easy to trespass without meaning to. I have plat books for every area I hunt in because I donít want to trespass on someones land and occasionally I still end up on private property.

The good news is in all my years of hunting I have only had one run in with an unreasonable person when I accidentally ended up on their land. That person threatened to shoot my dog if it crossed the two track that separated the state land from their land. I finished my hunt and went home and called the Countyís prosecuting attorney to report them and they sent a trooper down to have a conversation with the person. It turns out he wasnít even the landowner but a guest staying at the property.

Painting a purple stripe on the tree sounds like a simple method of posting the property. In Michigan I want to say you have to put up a sign every 100í. I had to walk the perimeter from time to time to make sure the signs were still up.

The biggest issue I have with posted property is in Michiganís Upper Peninsula some people are very protective of their deer blinds put up on public land. So they take to posting the state land to keep people out.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Chicago,

Here in Pa we have some similar problems, certain hunting clubs were posting parts of the SFL & SGL here in Potter/Tioga. I had to request the SGL & PGC actually remark the boundaries on part Painter Run, because a hunting club was claiming part of the SFL & SGL as their own property, a nice chunk of it in fact. Once the PGC remarked the real boundary lines all the club signs had to be removed. This kind of expansion has been going on for a long time, by certain hunting clubs that do not want people shooting what they consider their Deer. I Grouse hunt in that particular area, have sense I was about 8 years old, I knew exactly where the real boundaries were, and that they had somehow been removed from the trees. If the club would not have threatened me, I would have taken no action against their boundary line.

I do not like hunting clubs that do this kind illegal land management. It should be viewed as interfering with a legal hunt, when they told me to get off what was really State Game Land. I told the PGC just that. The club had leased the property from the land owner and made the excuse that they though they were in the right. The PGC gave them a written warning, advising the club to remove the no hunting signs, and not to interfere with anyone hunting in that area ever again.

Pine Creek/Dave
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last dollar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
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I am in favor of it. It isn't all that hard for hunters to ask permission. We posted all our ground after coming home from church and finding six Colorado hunters chasing pheasants in a small pasture next to our house. There were 3 mares and three baby horses in that pasture. ...
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Milo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Nov 2018
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I grew up in North Dakota and still hunt there regularly. We ranched and farmed a small area....maybe 2500 acres at the most but, it was ours. Our family homesteaded it over 130 years ago. My dad was always in favor of this law...it was proposed many times. We had to post our land every year. It didn't take a lot of time, energy or money but, we had to post our land so people wouldn't trespass. He was disgusted regarding the issue of "its open if its not posted". Yet, I also remember him letting every single person who asked to hunt....hunt. Every one. He just wanted to know who was out there, if our cattle were safe, if we were safe. I also know, access is the MAIN threat to hunting in the future. We went hunting in WY every year on a friends place. Paid a 100 trespass fee and the license. Today that same ranch is 2500 a person. For me to take my kids in that same experience.....10K. Sportsman and women want access, property owners want respect. We as sportsman...and landowners need to go down the road. I'd vote for it now...based on well, principle but...access is so important to our lifestyle, our history, our tradition. Just ASK....you'll likely get access.

FYI, I hunted private land in ND last fall...with my 16's and not a single landowner turned us down.

Michael

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Milo,

Good post, all you need to do is ask most land owner her in Pa, and 90% of the time you will be granted permission to hunt. I was never turned down out west one time.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Griffon
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 343
Location: maine

Try a app called onX maps to find landowners. App comes up like google earth showing outlines of landowners property and names/addresses . Maine was so so on landowner due to poor digital info at town offices, out west is way better per customer service rep for onX maps. There is map on their site showing accuracy state by state. Also works as a basic gps for tracking location and movement. Think they give a 7 day free trial. Maybe helpful. Like people said landowners pay taxes,weííre guest.

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wahoo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:12 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
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I concur that having a law which makes it a trespassing act to enter onto private property which has NOT been posted, too problematic. Iím trying to see it however through the large tracts property owners eyes. I suppose they find it burdensome to post their property, and do not want to contend with the out of pocket expense to mark their parameters to exercise their ownership rights. But at some point, civilized laws must dictate these sort of things, thus we have Surveyers and property line markers which also cost the owner to be placed. I think it ought to come down to the reasonable balance of public welfare vs rights of the individual, with the node going to what works equally well for both. Knowing where your own property lines are, and being responsible to mark them as necessary to meet your desires should fall onto the shoulders of the owner. That seems more reasonable to me than expecting the general public to know where your lines are at as to not illegally cross over when they have not been marked.
The setups that irk me most are those public lands which are surrounded on all sides by posted private property and no access easements to the public land available except by air.

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1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
1972 Rem 1100 12ga Auto 26"
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