Author |
Message |
< 16ga. General Discussion ~ 1oz 20ga #7.5. Vs 1oz 16ga #7.5 |
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:56 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI
|
|
Fellas,
Not to be starting a feud, but an honest question here...
If you have 1oz of 7.5 shot heading at a bird at 1175-1225 fps, what's the true advantage of the 16 over a 20?
Does the 16 pattern better?
Just wondering, I've been on a ladder all day and probably over thought this question... |
_________________ Good luck & great hunting,
-Danny Pratt |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:00 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas
|
|
Yes, less bore contact deformation with the shot and wad.
Also a shorter shot column.
Mike |
_________________
,
USAF RET 1971-95 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:04 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 401
|
|
And an air of sophistication about you! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:11 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were
|
|
Zero difference, in the real world.
No, the 16 gauge does not pattern better.
However, the sixteen likely lifts a fella's spirits so that he might well trigger the gun at the appropriate time and place tho. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:36 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri
|
|
In the real world?
Picking up a 16 opens a portal to an alternate universe of shot-gunning bliss. |
_________________ An ounce of fives, the smell of nitro in paper hulls, wet gundog, and Hoppe's #9... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:12 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas
|
|
Danny,
Expand your original question somewhat--do 1 oz. of 7.5s out of a 12 gauge pattern better than the same load out of a 20? I think you could find a lot of semi-scientific gun writer information that would say yes (and what about same out of a 10 gauge?), along with the shorter shot string of larger gauges. You can find same with a 20 vs. 16 comparison--I've read quite a few articles over the years making that claim.
In reality, do patterns (mostly controlled by choke, except in rare guns that don't pattern anything well or specialty spreader loads) and shot strings between the two gauges make much difference in the real world? In most situation, no, particularly when shots are straight away. However, on a dove field with 30 mph winds pass shooting at 40 yard high doves, yes, it makes a little difference. Shot strings especially. Give me a 12 with 1 and 1/8 oz. in that situation.
I'll have to dig it up, but one of the outdoor writers in a major outdoor rag wrote a few years back about his longtime experience with a Merkel 1620. He flat out stated that he did much better on the pattering range, on clays and in the field with the 16 gauge barrels, even though both gauges were choked the same.
yes, I know, there are folks who can run 100 straight with all gauges at clays. And with lesser amounts of shot in the smaller gauges. Keep in mind that these guns, particularly the smaller gauges, have been tweeked with choke tubes (and other refinements) to be able to powder 100 straight. In smaller gauges with lighter payloads of shot, choke must be adjusted (tighter) to maintain suitable pattern density to smash targets. In the field, .410s need to have relatively tight chokes to maintain pattern density or get ready to chase cripples.
Given current loads, 20 gauges are not "smaller" than 16s in terms of payload, but gauge may make a small difference in other respects. |
_________________ 16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:57 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
|
|
|
Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:22 am
|
|
|
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345
|
|
With all else being the same, does the shorter shot column of the 16 vs the 20 get moving down the tube easier at the shot? I ask because I’ve noticed that with same or similar guns shooting same weight shot at same speeds, the 16 has lower perceived recoil. |
_________________ 1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28" |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:22 am
|
|
|
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Great State of Kansas
|
|
Sort of Machs nichts for most of us, eh? If it weren't for blown patterns we would never kill a bird |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:27 am
|
|
|
Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy
|
|
In my experience, day in day out, when I compare my 20ga. and 16ga. guns of similar choking, the 16 anchors chukars more consistently than the 20 with an ounce of 7 1/2 shot once the shot distance approaches 35 yards. the difference isn't tremendous, but you do notice it if you hunt every day. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:29 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 1111
|
|
The really wonderful thing about shooting a 16 ga is that your buddies never ask to borrow shells. I do notice I just enjoy shooting my 16 ga's more than any other gauge, and that's the reason I run my dogs and hunt birds is for the enjoyment. My 16 ga's kill birds if I do my part and that's enough for me. |
_________________ An elderly gentleman, his faithful dogs, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:51 am
|
|
|
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were
|
|
wahoo wrote: |
With all else being the same, does the shorter shot column of the 16 vs the 20 get moving down the tube easier at the shot? I ask because I’ve noticed that with same or similar guns shooting same weight shot at same speeds, the 16 has lower perceived recoil.
|
That wonder is one I have never before heard. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:44 am
|
|
|
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri
|
|
Comparing loads with similar components gives some hint as why the 16 feels different/better than a 20.
Fiocchi plastic hulls with plastic base wad, Longshot powder, 616 primers, fold crimp, one ounce lead shot, and Rem SP wads in the respective gauge show:
1. 20ga uses less powder to achieve a given velocity.
2. 20ga at the same velocity has 3000+PSI higher peak pressure.
Now if I could just remember where I filed the formula to calculate total recoil energy,.. |
_________________ An ounce of fives, the smell of nitro in paper hulls, wet gundog, and Hoppe's #9... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:08 am
|
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
|
|
Gentlemen,
I agree with WyoChukar, if you hunt with both guns you will witness the difference over a longevity time, you start to see that the killing power of the 16 is better on live birds, than the 20 gauge, even when the 20 gauge uses 3" shells.
Having used both guns to Grouse hunt extensively this is exactly what I saw. The birds the 16 gauge gun killed out right exceeded the 20 gauge's ability. I do not know if this is due to the difference in patterns, or maybe the shot string being less dense. However it is a reality when gunning Grouse. Shooting Clays it may not matter, but killing birds is a different story.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:11 am
|
|
|
Joined: 22 Feb 2019
Posts: 63
Location: United States
|
|
I shoot sxs for the most part. I find that the ballance and quick handling of a 16 helps to get the pattern on target much better than a 20. the difference in the pattern itself is probably insignificant. |
_________________ This is really Byrdog with a new E-Mail address.
I make the Shortcut Shotshell Cutter. PM me here to inquire |
|
|
|
|
|
|