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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

oldog,

I also agree with your point, however there are some well balanced 20 gauge guns also and they still do not put the birds down as well. It may have more to due with shot string and the difference in the amount of shot thrown, than even the handling of the guns.

I do know however I kill a lot more Grouse outright with my 16 gauge double guns than I do my 20's and my 20 gauge guns fit me just as well as my 16 gauge guns do.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Mike Campbell,

What you say is absolutely true, it all depends on how good of a gunner the sportsman happens to be, Annie proved it long ago using her 16 gauge L.C. Smith double gun to best every Brit shooter in the world, those men were all using 12 gauge guns.

There is no substitute for how talented a gunner happens to be with their chosen gun, no load or gauge will ever change that fact. The lady was the best gunner in the world.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Mike Campbell,

What you say is absolutely true, it all depends on how good of a gunner the sportsman happens to be, Annie proved it long ago using her 16 gauge L.C. Smith double gun to best every Brit shooter in the world, those men were all using 12 gauge guns.

There is no substitute for how talented a gunner happens to be with their chosen gun, no load or gauge will ever change that fact. The lady was the best gunner in the world.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


I believe Miss Annie from Ohio used a variety of shotguns...12s and 16.

An effect from the length of a shot string at the odds on distances at which Bonasa U are shot?
Interesting.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

The larger the bore the more superior the ballistics, whether internal or external.

However it is all shades of gray....and like several have noted it is more up to the gunner than the gauge.


The other item is define ‘better’. Just because you are using a larger bore, does not automatically mean you have a shorter shot string and it certainly doesn’t mean the pattern is somehow ‘better’.

I use a 16 because I am very fond of the gauge for no other reason than I like it.

If the truth be told, I had to use my 12 ga. Beretta 686 last year in Nebraska with 1 1/4 oz. of #6’s and there was a difference between that and my 16 ga. with 1 1/8 oz. of 6’s. Big difference? No but it was noticeable.

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Beagleman
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Clemson

I dont hunt everyday, but on the days I do hunt an ounce of 7.5 shot kills exactly the same 20ga, 16 ga, or 12ga. regardless of the distance. The reason I feel more recoil in a 20ga. is because most of them weigh less. Perfect time for this thread. It's been awhile since the 16ga having the perfect square load has been discussed.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:07 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

My other reason for using my 16 to hunt with, especially early in the season is shooting thru dense habitat and still being able to kill Grouse. My 20 & 28 gauge guns are not capable of penetrating dense foliage like my 16 gauge gun with Fiocchi #6's that travel at 1300 FPS. With these shells under my 2nd trigger it gives me the capability of killing Grouse in this manner. If the habitat happens to be so dense the 16 does not due the job, I will on occasion use my #4 L.C. Smith 12 gauge double gun with it's 26" barrels. Now I have to admit this does not happen vary often, however it has happened. When the habitat happens to be this dense I do not even take the 20 or the 28 gauge guns out of the log cabin until all the leaves have dropped from the trees.

Pine Creek/Dave
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duckdup
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri

Mike Campbell,

I agree with you totally. It doesn't matter what gun you hit the bird with.

Pressure does make a difference on shot deformity and case/hull life. It also changes the impulse curve of the recoil but most people couldn't tell much difference.

The total recoil comment was meant as a joke,; everyone has a recoil formula.

Happy shooting to all and to all a good night...

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dannypratt
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:20 pm  Reply with quote
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These are interesting responses.

I hunted for my first 15yrs with a 20ga and 7/8 of 7.5...if I managed to hit it, it was a clean kill.

A few years back, probably 15yrs ago, I switched to a 16ga, 10z of 7.5, if I hit it was down. And real obviously too. Feathers in the wind and all.

Last year I hunted with a Light 12 Auto-5....1 1/8oz 7.5.....whamo. bird hit, bird down. Right now. Bird in the foliage, bird down, bird tearing straight away, bird down...

So I've been contemplating things....

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dannypratt
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:42 pm  Reply with quote
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I like my 12ga Auto-5...alot...but, I like my 16s too.
I used to think I shot a Sweet 16 Auto-5 pretty good, until I took out my Light 12 last year, which I shoot trap with. I slapped a 26" VR I/C barrel on there and I'll be damned if it didnt shoot and hunt like a dream.

I havent hunted with my Twenty Auto-5 in at least 15 years...I always loved it, but one I got on the 16ga kick, I really never looked back. I'd always been a fan of the 16 since I started hunting, but didnt get serious about it until I got a Sweet 16 Auto-5 back in my early 20s.

Well, now I'm starting to consider some things.

(I really shoot my Savage 775 16ga well...really well...but I cant JUST use that ONE gun)

Now that I've typed this out, maybe it's the physical size of the gun that I shoot better, not the gauge. The Savage is on a 12ga reciever,

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skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:51 pm  Reply with quote
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Which gun do you take out in the afternoon, after a full mornings hunt and a heavy lunch?

Mike

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

skeettx wrote:
Which gun do you take out in the afternoon, after a full mornings hunt and a heavy lunch?

Mike


The one I started the day with, of course.....regardless of lunch.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

skeettx,


Mike I never eat a heavy lunch when we Grouse hunt, however I get where you are going with your train of thought. If I have pushed pretty hard for 4 1/2 hrs that morning, I opt for my J.P Sauer Best 16 gauge Grouse gun, built on a 20 gauge frame or my Special Order 20 Gauge L.C. Smith that is even lighter.

No way I would carry a heavy semi-auto at 7 1/2 lbs or heavier thru the mountains after hunting all morning and then having lunch.

If the leaves are all off the trees, I might even carry my old 20 or 28 Gauge H&R Double Hammer Gun, that weights under 5 lbs, especially if there is snow on the ground.

He may like to shoot those bigger/heavier guns, but walking the mountains and Grouse hunting, a big gun can get real heavy.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:25 pm  Reply with quote
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kgb
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:27 pm  Reply with quote
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Depends on what the particular barrel is doing with its ounce of shot, too many variables to say for sure as a gauge vs. gauge event.

Using the following experiment done with a 20ga barrel, the author had the bore diameter changed with the choke altered each time to maintain a consistent amount of "Full" constriction which for the gun was .025" and he used what most would call quality shells. Shot charges of 7/8 to 1 1/4oz, but if you were to take the 1oz target load of 8's as closest to the original question here, which patterning result would you call the 20ga example for comparison to a 16ga, the 49%, 54%, 73% or 88%? Same gun, same shell, different bore diameters. Not that a 16ga with a similar ounce of 8's though a bore .030" larger would necessarily top 90%, if there were an STS load in 16ga, but externally that Ithaca was an average "20ga gun" as the testing went along yielding different results.

My 20ga M37's bore is .615" and that of my Beretta 303 is .625". I haven't patterned either one but have shot Skeet in each with the same shells. The .025" constriction of the Ithaca's Full choke does not obliterate close targets like a choke tube giving .011" of constriction in the Beretta does, using Remington 7/8oz Gun Club #8s. They both qualify to me as 20ga bird guns, but have to stand as such on their own for several reasons. As do the 16s.

http://uplandjournal.ipbhost.com/topic/796-20-gauge-pattern-results/?tab=comments#comment-16577

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