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<  16ga. Guns  ~  LC Smith Field vs Stevens 311
wahoo
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

Pardon my ignorance, I grew up and live in a region of the country where very few doubles have been used by the common sportsman going back several generations. So I have little to go on from personal experience , when it comes to classic American made sxs shotguns. I do however, own and have used a bit, an excellent condition Stevens 311 in 12ga. Frankly, I find it to be robustly built, but kinda clunky and heavy to tote around for long. I'm curious how the two guns in the title of my post compare, when both are of the 16ga. Yes I understand the actions are not the same, but more importantly, how do they compare in terms of shootability, balance, weight, etc like that.

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1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

http://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/2016/01/an-unbiased-look-at-design-of-american.html


What this guy said.


You already nailed the 311. For what it is worth, a lady on my work trap league had a 16 gauge 311, 1950s vintage, I think, purchased used by her Dad for her. She used it for trap and skeet league, and hunted pheasants in South Dakota 2 or 3 times a year. I serviced it, every year, for at least ten years. It was pretty bulletproof. Nothing special to look at, but, it served her well. The only time it saw cleaning or maintenance is once a year, when I did it for her. I don’t think it was ever done before I offered to do it. It had been in use for a very long time, at that point.
Wonder where the lady and her gun are? I lost touch after the plant closed, but, she would be well into retirement now. I bet the gun is still up to a round of skeet if she is.

Best,
Ted

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

The 311 is simpler and as much as I hate to admit it, much more trouble free. The 311 is crudely finished by comparison and most Smith guns point, balance, and handle nicer. The first 16 I shot regularly was a Stevens 311 (same gun). It treated me well, even if it actually was Mom's gun! I still like a Smith better, even if they do have issues. Neither is my first choice though. I tend to echo what Vicknair wrote in the above link.

All of that said, I am going to guess that you are looking to buy a 16 ga. double and don't have a lot of cash. If this is actually the case, I will make the recommendation I almost always make: find a Lefever Nitro Special. It's not a show queen, but is nicer than the Savage. Shop around and you may find one that is closer to 6 lbs. than 7 lbs. $300-$500 is what I would expect to give for a good to very nice N.S. in 16 ga. The 311 isn't going to save you much money.

If you are patient, an Ithaca (who actually made the Nitro Special) N.I.D. or Fox Sterlingworth occasionally shows up for $600-$700 online, as long as you don't mind a scratch or three. My Fox, Ithaca N.I.D, and 2 Smiths all came to me for less than $700 in the past few years.

Right now the good deals have all but vanished online as people have received their tax returns. A month ago there were a lot of bargains. I looked yesterday and those are pretty much gone. I am responsible for the disappearance of one of them. Give it a month...


Last edited by WyoChukar on Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

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wahoo
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:27 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

Thanks guys for your replies. I'm not really shopping for another 16 just now, but after reading so many praises on here from folks regarding their American classics, I had began to wonder what I was missing. The two 16 doubles I currently own are very svelt and a dream to carry, however, they are indeed on the lighter side of the weight curve. Too light I think to hold up well to high brass loads one might routinely feed a gun when hunting duck or pheasant. To that note, I'm open to another, more robust gun, say something in the league of a Browning BSS, but in 16. If the gun handles well, but just a lb or so heavier than what I have, it's a candidate I think. I have long been thinking about a Spanish gun, and even considering an O/U. I really like my wife's Browning Citori 16ga

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1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:37 pm  Reply with quote
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It's true no Stevens is gonna knock your socks off with fit or finish, but if you can find a pre-serial number Stevens (1949 or earlier) they're much nicer than the later issues: walnut stocks, real checkering, etc. Wyo has described my situation to a "T": I wanted a 16ga double and didn't have much money. A person with a burning desire, very little knowledge, and not much money is a danger to himself, but I was lucky. This Stevens 5100 (branded as Springfield) is as good a gun as I could have hoped for under the circumstances; it's treated me very well, and even though I have nicer and more expensive guns today, I sometimes think I shoot the old Stevens better'n any of 'em. And I've never found a Nitro Special I'd trade it for.



Last edited by fin2feather on Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
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John Singer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Like fin2feather, my 16 gauge sxs is a Stevens 5100. It weighs just over 7 lbs. Compared to a 311, the wood walnut and fit and finish is better.

A sxs more than any other shotgun has to be handled to be appreciated. The Stevens 5100 in 16 gauge is light and graceful compared to the 311 in 12 gauge.

I paid next to nothing for this gun and I will never trade it and doubt I ever sell it. It is my go to gun for pheasant, grouse, rabbit and duck hunting.


Last edited by John Singer on Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:38 am; edited 2 times in total

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duckdup
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri

Never had a problem with the Stevens doubles. With a little work, they can be very fast handling and the early production are less much "clunky". Add a set of Wolff Springs (performance pack for cowboy action shooters) and they get even better.

This one is clipped to 25" barrels (properly done) and the springs swapped. It is my canoe-gun for woodies and doodles...

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/56745_600x400/] [/URL]

Took two shots, got no ducks...

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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Regulars here have seen this gun before, but, when the topic turns to the lower spectrum guns, these are hard to beat:


[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/56827_600x400/] [/URL]

1937 Nitro Special, factory 2 3/4” chambers, 26” barrels with CYL and MOD chokes, 6 lbs, 1 oz. I’ve used it a lot in recent years, mostly grouse hunting with non toxic shot. There are a few areas where I am compelled to do so. This is usually the gun I use.

The Western Arms guns, the Nitro Specials, and the more upscale NID are all super reliable everyday guns. The older 311 and 5100 guns are as well.

Good luck with whatever you come up with.

Best,
Ted


Last edited by Ted Schefelbein on Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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16'er
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Tappahannock, Virginia

IMO, the ‘best’ 311’s are the early Model B guns. Fit and balance are acceptable at least. Still not sure they are worth the money they seem to bring.

If looking for a American double, I’d put the NID and Savage Fox at the head of my list. Philly foxes never seem to have the right stock dimensions, although I’d still like one some day. For a hunter/shooter the savage sterlingworth is a very serviceable gun. I’d rather have a nice NID than a L.C. Or Parker, but that’s me. I’ve owned three LC Smiths, and passed all of them down the road. I’ve had a couple of 311’s and the 28” was dead on poi, and would smoke clays like nobody’s business. A bit clunky, but not quite the ‘fence post’ some ascribe. Mine was seven lbs iirc, same as my citori 525 16 ga.
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Beagleman
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Clemson

Both of mine balance and shoot perfectly fine. The Smith is lighter than the 5100. Nice wood on both. The Smith looks and feels more delicate than the sturdy 5100. I use my Fox Sterlingworth as much or more than the other 2. Buy a couple and decide for yourself!

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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

wahoo wrote:
Thanks guys for your replies. I'm not really shopping for another 16 just now, but after reading so many praises on here from folks regarding their American classics, I had began to wonder what I was missing.


That right there, is a hell of a notion, and one that I agree with. Most of those American classics are only implements, designed to make a tidy profit for the builder. Lurking at gun shows here in fly over country for the last 40 years, I can say I wish I had a buck for every Parker with a bolt through the head of the stock, and every L.C. Smith that had wood issues that were going to cost more than the gun was worth to correct. If a guy knows the trouble spots on these old classics going in, and is willing to work with those limitations, good for him. But, I think a lot of guys with a mortgage, a wife, 2.5 kids, and the other things that get in the way, get sold on the notion they are classics, and sound and reliable for any use. And, that might not be true.

The Nitro guns were designed to be fed modern ammunition, as was the NID. You might get into trouble with the wood being old at this point in time, but, that is about the only limitation. The action itself is more than up to modern loads. When I had mine apart I sealed up the inside surfaces of the wood, hoping to prolong the life of the wood, and so far, so good. My Nitro wasn’t used all that much before I got it. Mine is a decent compromise between light carrying, and up to modern ammunition. Pretty? Nope. Useful and reliable? Absolutely. I use it as much or more than my guns that are worth a lot more money.

Some of the boxlock guns off the continent can be extremely good buys, but, run light as well, and often have short chambers, something I have been steering away from in recent years. Others are content to buy short ammunition, and keep them running on same. I’m sort of looking for fewer hassles as I get older, and I still have a lot of older American spec 16 gauge ammunition bought on the cheap at gun shows and garage sales. I know a guy with one of the Browning 16 gauge O/Us, it is a choke tube gun and his outweighs my Beretta O/U in 12 gauge. He loves it, but, I don’t think I would choose a 16 at over 7 lbs very often when I was going hunting.

Again, good luck.


Best,
Ted

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wahoo
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

Something I forgot to ask...are the actions on these found in 16ga, generally sized smaller/lighter than same model in 12ga? I've read that the Fox guns are or at least some variations are. What about those others mentioned above?

_________________
1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Parker guns, from the action flats down, are all the same size. This gives the small bore guns an odd shape, almost pregnant looking. The NID and Nitro guns all have specific frame sizes. The Western Arms guns are very similar to Nitro Specials, a bit different lockup and frame material, but, specific frames again.
The .410 versions of these guns are a bit odd looking, since, the frame is smaller, but not quite small enough. But, they are light enough as .410s.

Best,
Ted

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:39 pm  Reply with quote
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To the point of the op, I would rather have a nice 311 than a LC Smith field, simply because the LC's are so danged hard to put back together if you ever have to take one apart. By comparison, I could probably assemble a Syracuse Lefever sideplate boxlock gun blindfolded in a few minutes. Wink

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Some of you mentioned the Stevens 5100 and well, that is a different story than the 311. The 5100 is more in the category of the Nitro Special and Western Field doubles. It is undoubtably a notch above the 311.

The great thing about this short list is that they are not high priced collectors items and perfect candidates for frequent use in the duck blind. Run 15 cases worth of steel shot through them and when a little cosmetic peening in the forcing cones eventually shows up, who cares? The gun will happily keep right on doing it's job. I would ream a full choke out a bit for steel shot types though.

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