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Ruff Hunter
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:01 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 156

That is scary as hell! Thankfully the shooter was not injured.

Nothing but RSTs in my Elsies or Sterly and always look for an obstruction.

Is it possible that the wad from the previous shot somehow obstructed the barrel?

CAVEAT: I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GUNSMITHING OR ENGINEERING.

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Thats right, I'm an armed liberal (SORT OF) and I like to shoot furry little critters.... and I kill 'em with:
12Ga LC Smith
16Ga Fox Sterlingworth
16Ga BRNO
20Ga LC Smith
20Ga Miroku x2 (Model F & Model 500)
28Ga AYA 4/53 (bucket list item #6)
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Ruff Hunter
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 156

fourtown wrote:
After reading a couple of pages of the discussion about the burst barrel in that link, I quickly remembered why 16ga,com is the only gun forum that I follow.


Yeah that board has some characters!

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Thats right, I'm an armed liberal (SORT OF) and I like to shoot furry little critters.... and I kill 'em with:
12Ga LC Smith
16Ga Fox Sterlingworth
16Ga BRNO
20Ga LC Smith
20Ga Miroku x2 (Model F & Model 500)
28Ga AYA 4/53 (bucket list item #6)
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airmedic1
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 191
Location: Nebraska (It’s not for everyone)

"After reading a couple of pages of the discussion about the burst barrel in that link, I quickly remembered why 16ga,com is the only gun forum that I follow."
Isn't that the truth, that's why I seldom go there!

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:57 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ

Good afternoon gentlemen.
Here is the 3rd and latest attempt to post a thread regarding the blow-up
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=546106

I'm off to show the barrel to a metallurgical engineer on Tuesday.

fn16ga - could you please confirm that the loads tested at 11,500 were Cheddite for Herters “Select Field Dove and Quail” 1 oz. at 1165 fps?

BTW: still using my damascus 16g 0E L.C. Smith out at Ben Avery with 3/4 oz. reloads Smile

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Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Yeah, I have no plans on sidelining my L.C. either.

Just my take on things after viewing these photos in the newest link. It appears that the braze joint had a void in the area of the "divot", allowing metal to expand into said void. Too much heat? Good possibility there.Also, the metal immediately surrounding the divot looks as though it has micro cracks indicative of metal stretching beyond it's point of elasticity.

I notice that the barrel tubes look horribly thin at the braze joint and therefore were very dependent on the that joint giving uniform contact with the lug. Is it possible that the barrels were filed too thin then brazed to a thicker lug to allow everything to fit?

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:45 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

I'll make a slight adaptation of Ludwig Wittgenstein's quote to say: "Whereof one does not know, thereof one must be silent". I am a mechanical engineer with an advanced degree (Master of Science, Mech. Engr.) specializing in analytical and experimental stress analysis and vibrations, as well as structures, dynamics and fatigue testing. Courses in metallurgy are part of even the Batchelor's Degree in this line of study. I am always amused at all these armchair forum analyses of material failures, especially on DoubleGunShop, replete with fanciful and incorrect terminology, and observations impossible with the naked eye.

Same as WyoChukar and others have stated, I do believe a poorly made braze joint or one degraded by corrosion could have been the initiation point for a fracture in this case. But I'm only speculating, and I'd put a lot more trust in an analysis by RevDocDrew's metallurgist. Let's wait for that.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

MaxSmoke,

I agree 100%!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:53 am  Reply with quote
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revdocdrew wrote:
fn16ga - could you please confirm that the loads tested at 11,500 were Cheddite for Herters “Select Field Dove and Quail” 1 oz. at 1165 fps?


Yes is I sent in 5 rounds ( with some other stuff I was having done) for the low pressure group .

I have the test sheet somewhere . Only problem with testing factory ammo is as the lot components ( Powder, Primers )change so may pressure and velocity .
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:52 am  Reply with quote
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Thank you.

The barrel is at METL for testing right now.

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:49 pm  Reply with quote
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1200fps 11500psi
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:00 pm  Reply with quote
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Report is in and summarized here
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=546106&page=8

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:08 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Good stuff. Thank you for putting in the work to get this analysis done.

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Drew,

Many thanks for your attention devoted to this matter and the report. Is there a bottom line conclusion to be drawn from the report for the benefit of us vintage 16 ga enthusiasts?

B.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

The inclusion was very easy to see and should have been caught by the owner of the shotgun.

Most inclusions are not visible with the naked eye and that would mean some sort of ultra-sonic, x-ray or other NDT type of inspection which really aren't practical for most folks to have done.

If you think about it, how many of these types of failures have happened with this model firearm? Or any model firearm for that matter.

.......and honestly this failure should have been avoided had the owner been cleaning and inspecting this firearm on a regular basis.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

That is some scary looking stuff in those photos. The analysis confirms a number of suspected issues. As suspected the void/ inclusion site proved to initiate failure. The porosity revealed during testing is rather frightening. Add that to a weak and contaminated braze joint plus possible localized overheating during said process and it seems that this particular cat certainly used all nine of its lives. It's actually impressive that the gun had not failed sooner.

I agree with Mr. Hause that if the engineering of the gun was insufficient, this would have occurred with a good many guns. My Smith will not be relegated to "wall hanger" status anytime soon.

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