16ga.com ~ View topic

Lots of guys shoot target guns exclusively off-bird-season but retire those to the gun safe and work hard with their bird gun (s?) exclusively for 2-3 mths before opening day. I shoot nothing but my bird guns all year (but had to stop trap shooting) with 7/8 or 3/4 oz. 16g loads.

Amen to that. I've consistantly found the best gamebird shots or wingshooters if you will are also accomplished clay target shooters who shoot regularly. I've had the pleasure of hunting with a bunch of folks from all over this country, and this is a simple and invariable fact.

I've hunted with my share of non target shooting folks who are considered good shots by their non target shooting cronies, but in almost every case, these guys are mediocre shots at best. A good solid skeet shooter will get on the bird twice as fast, kill it cleanly much more regularly, and can do so with smaller gauges at longer ranges everytime. I've also listened to the excuses of having a bad day, the gun is malfunctioning, etc. I've even been chewed out for not giving the bird a sporting chance by killing it too quickly by one or two of these "wingshooters". Rolling Eyes

Its almost understandable. These types have rarely or never shot clay targets and rely on hunting experience only. Its not enough in our modern times.

I've been strumping a regular regimen of low gun skeet as a good way to practice for upland wingshooting for some time now. You will see just about every flight angle you will be faced with in dealing with game birds from straightaways to incomers and over the head passing shots. The close proximity to the target is similar, and the speed of the target is considerably faster than most game birds fly at. Plus, its a fairly small target too. If you want, you can also shoot the game with a varying time delay and even throw surprise targets from either house, following pairs, doubles, etc. and from in between the regular stations or at longer ranges if there is room to do so safely. There is no reason anyone has to shoot the standard American skeet foremat. Mix it up and make it as challanging as you like. Its all good.

I also shoot 5 stand quite often, and sporting clays whenever I can. However, 5 stand and sporting clays targets are usually faster, and at longer ranges than you will usually see upland birds except for maybe pass shooting doves or waterfowl. But if you can average 70 to 80% or more in these two disciplines, then game birds are going to be fairly easy, regardless of the situation. You will have arrived at what I consider to be a very competant wingshot.

Shooting any of these disciplines, and trap too, correctly teaches us proper and consistant gun mounting, use of the eyes in picking up a moving target properly, swinging the gun through its line of flight at a proper speed and direction, and executing the shot at exactly the right time. That is the essence of wingshooting. The rest is just experience in the field learning the ways to hit each species under a myriad of conditions. But anyone should start learning at a local clays range with some solid teaching from a good instructor and experianced shot. you just can't get started any better than that. Regular practice will reinforce the lessens you've learned. So get out there and shoot some targets, and have some fun while you are at it. No one said practice has to be tedious, boring, or lonely. Personally, I love it all.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

16Ga guy-I totally agree with your take on Browning and not trying to inferr the citori/superposed is not a legend. in fact the best gun I have ever had the pleasure to use was a 12GA superposed lightning-never missed with that gun. Its just not currently the gun I'm looking to acquire so therefore, irrelevant. As for sporting clays, skeet etc., you guys may be taking my post the wrong way, or simply reading into it something I'm not intending. Snap shooting quail is a reality for me and theat doesnt mean it isnt carried out with swing and proper technique. Somehow snap shooting has been turned into blindly raising your gun in the general direction of a bird, pulling the trigger and hoping for a lucky hit. First of all that is incorrect, secondly, I don't think I've ever wounded a quail in my life as it takes very, very little to kill these birds. Clays are great, and obviusly your preaching to the choir in that not only do I own a sporting gun (XS) but I also shoot clays every week and certainly will shoot the new sterly there massively until I achieve technique for that gun. I also agree that the best shooters that accompany me in the field are dedicated clay shooters-as am I. Let's try not to attach too many negative meanings to the term "snap shooting". Or better yet, let's just change the term to very fast, technically sound synchronization of target acqusition/trigger pull dynamics.Finally, let's not assume to project our very own negative visualizations/translations toward others whom we have no idea of their respective expertise. It seems automatic sometimes that when a person asks for others opinions on a gun to hopefully learn something new, it becomes generally assumed that he/she knows nothing at all-about guns, sportsmanship, ethics and sound techniques of shotgunning.

16gg and jig are BOTH right Very Happy

The only observation that I would add is that at the beginning of the season, I've seen a number of very good clays shooters miss ahead of flushing quail and esp. pheasant (which I did 2-3 times in KS and S. Dakota in Nov). Birds just don't fly as fast as a clay target off a wound up spring sporting clays thrower. I have to tell myself 'shoot em' in the head' the first few birds until the old bird hunting timing kicks in.

Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 124 Location: Kansas City

Many years ago I started shooting shotguns on the skeet range when I moved to the Midwest. I shot decent scores but couldn't hit squat in the field. First problem was I don't walk around in the field with a shotgun mounted to my shoulder. So I started shooting skeet with the gun not mounted. This helped some but I got a lot of strange looks and I was still taking to long to make my shots. So I started learning from old time hunters who were great shots but never shot at a clay bird in their life. In Missouri after opening day if you want to find birds they are in or near heavy cover. The cover consist of waste high brush then a layer of low scrubby trees and topped off with a canopy of mature trees. If you are going to hit anything you bring the gun up to your shoulder, release the safety and fire in one motion. The other method is gap shooting in very heavy cover. Point your shotgun in a break in the cover if the bird enters the gap pop him, if he doesn't better luck next time. I miss those old timers they are mostly gone but I'll never forget their stories of hunting during the depression. They had to be good their families needed the meat. Most of the time they didn't use shotguns shells, cost to much. Back in those days you could buy 22's by the round. If your dad bought you 5 rounds you better come home with 5 rabbits. I couldn't hit a running rabbit with a 22 if my life depended on it, have enough trouble hitting them with a shotgun.

Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 58 Location: Northeast

I hope no one ever has the experience of seeing another hunter at the opposite end of the gap or hole in the cover, beyond the bird you're shooting at, right after you pull the trigger. Be safe gents!

Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 124 Location: Kansas City

Hunting in heavy cover isn't like in open fields. You can't relax if you don't know where your hunting buddy or your dog is you don't shoot. Also, on the other side of that gap is a whole lot more heavy cover. The only time I've ever been peppered with shot is hunting in open areas you have a lot of protection in cover. Shot simply won't penetrate very far, just avoid heavy cover during deer and turkey season and you will be fine.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Funny-I had the opposite problem as the poster who went from the skeet field to the hunting field. I was a fairly accomplished wingshot when I first darkened the doors of the local skeet club, but didnt shoot clays near as well as I shot birds on the wing. I'd say thats still true today, I'm a much better wingshot than clays. Though i've poasted some great scores on skeet, trap and sporting clays, I'm much more known by my friends as a wingshot. Think it's adrenalin and instinct in the field for me-something just comes from deep within as if my life depends on getting the bird to the bag. whereas with clays I know that my being able to eat doesnt depend on the hit-and there's always another clay to shoot after the miss. Plus, I didnt have to hump and sweat over hill and dale to get the clay. As for safety heavy cover etc., you just have to know positively and be aware of your surroundings. Saftey is everything with all guns and I 've been well trained since a 10 year old then the military and on and on. We even still cross-check each others chambers before getting in the car with all guns and sound off "chamber clear" we are all ex-military.

Member Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 450 Location: Indiana

I agree with most that has been said. Any kind of practice on clays is sure going to help. But sporting clays has gotten to far away from the Idea the British had it intended for. From what I gather sporting clays was developed for the guy who has a average gun that he kept in the closet and got out to shoot clay birds to simulate what he might have in the field.

I think clays has gotten to far away from that and become to highly competitive. Most of the shots I see you never see in the field or if you did you shouldn't. Alot of the shots are to far out or are just plain outrageous. That said I do shoot sporting clays just for the fun of it but I'm not going out and buy a special gun just for it.

I shoot a lot of skeet with gun down all the way around. I've done it so long now that I feel out of place doing it with gun mounted. I don't know how many time guns ask me why I shoot like that and I tell them that is what skeet was desighed for.

I shoot a lot of trap but not for the same reasons. I shoot it because of the games and the fellowship that goes on. The fun at this seems to be very different than other types of shooting I do. I have seen many guns go off in the ground 3' in front of the squads because these dumbasses insist to use release triggers and many times forget what they are doing. I think a release trigger should be banned because of the stupidy that happens with them. I don't go for that flenching bulls&*( if thats is a problem then work you way out of it.

So what some may call snap shooting I call instictive shoot ing because an instictive shooter is aware of his surroundings and saftey and his fellow buddies at all times. Saftey first, shooting second. A snap shooter is a person who is not a advid wingshooter but a once or twice a year out hunting. He may not shoot at first sight but will eventually shoot in the directon of game not even knowing what is out in front of the shoot.

In my mind a snap shoot and a instictive shoot is two different kind of shooters.

Just the way I see it and don't mean to offend anyone.