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Ducks Rx
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 77

Got light weight sxs with cylinder in right barrel and imp cylinder in left. Shooting 7/8 oz # 8 but patterns a little open for shooting wild quail in West Texas as usually flush 10 to 15 yds in front of dog making for longer shots Anyone got any suggestions from your experiences at reloads that would pattern a little tighter?
Thanks. Bruce
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:24 pm  Reply with quote
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Bruce

Wrap the petals of your wad with one wrap of scotch tape.
You might get IC and Mod Smile

Please report your results.

Mike

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:47 pm  Reply with quote
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DucksRX,

Buffer and larger shot produce tighter patterns. If I remember correctly, Bob Brister found that in his work, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one. Check out his book. Quail don't need large shot, but if you are a #8 and #7.5 guy, go to #7. If shots are really long, such as past 35 yards, go to #6. Use a good wad with a plastic cup that covers the full length/depth of the shot. Other than jug-choking the barrels, that's about all you can do.

I guess you could shoot some of the very hard and dense tungsten alloy stuff, like HeviShot or ITX13, etc. Those types of shot do pattern tighter, and like open chokes. If you're only shooting 7/8 ounce or even 1 ounce, you'll need to load them yourself, as factory loads in those types of shot tend to be heavy loads for waterfowl. You'll need a good hard-shot-type wad to protect your barrel. Places like Ballistic Products, Inc. or Precision Reloading sell heavy duty shot cups for that.

First of all, though, pattern that gun. Are you really sure your pattern is not dense enough considering today's wads? Modern shells (last 50 years with plastic wad units) already probably pattern about one step tighter than the choke posted or measured on your barrel, especially with open chokes like yours. Also, how distant are your shots, really? 35 Yards is a fairly long shot at most upland birds, most are more like 25 yards. Maybe it's just me, but at 35 yards, quail look exceedingly small. I'm guessing chukars (which I haven't hunted) and late season sharptails (of which I have shot plenty) are the only upland bird situations justifying full or even modified chhokes. How's your trap game? Go shoot a round with that gun (after being sure of points of impact on the patterning board). I have no trouble breaking them from the 16 yard line with a straight cylinder-choked 20 gauge with 7/8 oz of #9's loaded with Winchester AA wads. That's probably about a 35 yard shot.

Some say the tape trick works, yet when some plastic wad columns that are manufactured with the petals linked (DR-16, for example), and can later be found after firing to still have the petals linked, some of those people say the fact that the links don't break makes no difference to patterning. So I don't know what to think about taping the petals of plastic wad cups together. I have no data to quantify the result. I'm not up to trying it either, as I don't think I need to for my purposes. I also have negative thoughts about the prospect of melted polyethylene tape and mastic residue in my barrels, however factual or non-factual that inconvenience might be.

Cheers and Good Luck!
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old colonel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:34 pm  Reply with quote
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Concur on taping wad.

Also concur that buffering and larger shot can make a difference, though I do not have first hand experience on the shot size change.

Also consider going to harder shot. If the gun is steel capable, steel will hold a tighter pattern.

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John Singer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
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Location: Rochester, MN

Have you considered having the gun jug choked?

http://www.hallowellco.com/jug_choke%20-%20definition.htm

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putz463
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:13 am  Reply with quote
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Interesting topic! Agree with the larger magnum shot suggestions but results have to be tested in your gun to understand true effect. I have not tried it but I see the tape idea possibly working by adding dimension to the wad petal increasing the choking effect when compared against the exact same load w/o tape all else being equal. Not unlike using a recipe calling out a wad that has thicker petals, this I do have experience with seeing it in different 10ga loads using 2 different wads. If nervous about tape outside the wad gunking up the barrel walls maybe adding an in cup wrap (mylar, teflon, etc.) would work as well.

Buffer does work and probably known but can't hurt to share with regards to safety, buffer usually adds pressure so either only use published loads OR have a load tested before shooting them.

Great topic, good luck with it...

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16'er
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:38 am  Reply with quote
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Black powder guys use wax melted around the shot.
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mcrewz
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:27 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
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Try loading with a steel wad like the csd16. You will of course have to use nitro cards and felt to get the shot column the correct height. In 12gs bismuth loads I have pattered there is usually about changes the pattern from a IC to a MOD or a MOD to a FULL.

Mike
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Swampy16
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
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What Mcrewz said. Steel shot wads do not have the pedals cut. It’s worth a try.
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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:37 am  Reply with quote



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It can get interesting doing this sort of project . I understand the want for lighter loads , and they are adequate . What you don't say is what type loading you are doing . Trap shooters used to use Green Dot instead of Red to tighten cores , so slower powder may help . If you are using Gualandi wads , you may want to switch to Z wads to cover more of the shot up . The tape trick has worked for me in the past , so may be a great idea for the Z wad . Just be careful using the steel shot wads - some like my old herters wads caused a large spike in recoil and pressure . Neither would be something you want in that old , light gun ..... I'd try Z wads with the tape , may be the cats meow !( go to shorter shell cases if needed to fit the load)

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putz463
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:39 am  Reply with quote
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Swampy16 wrote:
What Mcrewz said. Steel shot wads do not have the pedals cut. It’s worth a try.


And are thicker walled than lead wads.

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PatrickB
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:21 pm  Reply with quote
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Assume you have actually measured the choke? Once that is confirmed time at the pattern board is next. What is the average pattern at your desired distance. From there you can play around with different loads until you get so bored you no longer care or find a load that meets expectations. Others have provided possible suggestions. Might want to try lower fps as that usually results in tighter patterns. A 1oz load of 7s at 1175-1200fps seems like a good place to start.
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:01 am  Reply with quote



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Try some green dot. Thats what many trapshooters us to tighten patterns.
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sneem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:24 pm  Reply with quote



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Try diffferent wads. I did some load testing on a 12 gauge and found that wads made a difference. As I remember, Remington wads tended to pattern tighter and windjammers patterned more open. Win wads were in the middle, but all that is subjective. You just have to experiment. But wads can make a surprising difference.

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texasbilly
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:42 pm  Reply with quote
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In addition to all the suggestions made, my personal experience has shown that high velocity loads tend to open patterns, while low velocity loads tend to tighten patterns.
My suggestion is to use solid wads, large shot, slower powder, and low velocity combinations to tighten your patterns.

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