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Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Shot my XS Skeet on trap 2 rounds 21 & 23 than broke out the 16GA sterly and was humiliated. Plus it whacked me in the cheek so hard it was like getting smacked every shot. Never in my life has a gun slapped me in the cheek like that. Anyway, I shot 9 out of 20 and had enough punishment. Must either lengthen stock and maybe beef up comb Help pleeez

Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 58 Location: Northeast

Yep, that's what happens when you switch from a 7.75# gun to one that weighs significantly less, especially when the shot charge used is ~ equal (1 ounce, 1.125 ounce). Other factors are the lower stock and shorter LOP. Plus I'm sure the 26" barrels are somewhat of a handicap for score at trap as compared with the 30" tubes on your XS.

That's why a lot of guys get their SxS's restocked and just reserve them mainly for shooting at game.

Also let me comment that I've heard similar comments from folks who pick up a SxS and shoot at clays with it for the first time or two. The sight pictures you've developed for an o/u let's say, will get confusing when looking at those wide muzzles on a S x S. Yah, I know you're supposed to look at the target, not the gun, but your subconscious sees the muzzle(s) anyway.

Solutions: restock the gun to your dimensions for higher comb and longer LOP, shoot it more frequently to get used to it. Don't add weight to the buttstock (lead, etc.)..... it will just accentuate the whippiness of those 26" light barrels. Be sure your chamber is 2-3/4" if shooting 2-3/4" cartridges (as per your thread on the Fox site). Yeah I know the 2-3/4" shells will go bang in a shorter chamber but despite articles seemingly blessing that practice something about it makes the recoil seem sharper, hence tougher when shooting for score. An expedient might be to add a recoil pad and a stick-on comb height increaser, but if you are a collector type that might bug you. Silvers

NO WORRIES MATE-we'll help you through this Very Happy

Few great things come without some extra effort!
Hopefully 3DocPop will weigh in here because we went through this same thing with him up in S. Dakota. It would be SO much easier if we could watch you mount the gun, see where your eye lined up in relation to the receiver and rib, and watched your shot string BUT we can make some suggestions. And before the trip was over, he was nailing the birds.
The standard Sterly had 14" LOP with a 2 3/4" drop at heel (the buttplate) My Citori Ultra XS has almost 15" with 2 3/8" DAH. Please measure your LOP from the front trigger to the middle of the buttplate AND you can measure your drop by placing the gun rib down on a table (with the bead off the end of the table), then measuring the distance between table surface and the top (uh...now the bottom Rolling Eyes

) of the buttplate.
Because of the much greater drop, what I suspect was happening was that you tried to mount the gun like your Citori and ended up (possibly subconsciously when actually shooting) looking at the back of the receiver, raised your head to see the target, got whacked because your head was off the stock, and shot over the bird. Classic SxSs require a much more erect head position and 3Doc needed to put much more face (mounting the gun lower on his face) between the bone under the eye (zygomatic arch) and the stock in order to have his eye looking straight down the rib.
I though he was going to need a longer LOP but was wrong. He's a big guy with a very thick chest and his LOP was actually fine at 14 1/4".
I'd suggest you get one of those add-on comb pads with several thicknesses and find the appropriate thickness you need BUT this will work only after you figure out the correct mounting position on your face. There are also add-on butt pads to lengthen the pull to see what feels right for you. BUT lengthening the pull will move your face further toward the rear of the stock thereby increasing the drop. At some point you'll need to hit the pattern board but centering targets is a better measure of fit.
Once you have the face position thing figured out with the correct pad, I'd get a Soft-comb Elevator pad (whcih will create a straight comb like a Monte Carlo) from www.swshotguns.com Doesn't look great on a classic SxS but you got the gun to shoot birds, not enter in the next gunshow beauty pagent Wink

Another possibility is that the brls are mis-regulated but we don't want to go there yet!
I know how frustrating this is, but don't give up on the Sterly! AND it's just not going to work to try to go back and forth between the Sterly and your Citori-way too different stocks and mounting technique.
Let us know the numbers you get.

Or sell it and get a Citori. Sorry, just couldn't resist being a smartass. Rolling Eyes

I learned a long while back that older classic guns just ain't my thing. None of them except some trap models fit me. On the other hand, my late model (1960-61) AyA Matador and Beretta 409 fit me fine. They have about the same drop to comb and heel all my other post WWII shotguns do, shoot to a good point of impact, and do not kick me silly either. This was a revelation to me, because until a year or so ago, I was convinced I just could not shoot an SXS. I found out the stock configuration really matters quite a bit.

One other thing. everyone is keying on drop at heel. While this can have some importance, its the drop at the comb, where the face sits on the comb, and just where the eye is in relation to the rib that is the most important measurement. find that spot and you are half way home.

A shooter can check this himself in front of a well lit mirror if he already has a shotgun he shoots well. Just mount the familiar gun as normal and focus on the shooting eye. Then refocus on where the shooting eye is in relation to the rib or barrel. Then do the same thing with the new gun. The shooting eye should be in about the same relationship to the new gun as the old. This will get you close on. After positioning the eye either by mounting the gun as is or by modifying the stock with pads, butt pads, etc, then pattern the gun for point of impact. The shooter can then fine tune it from there.

Guest

jig you didn't mention what ammo you were using. Try using some Winchester, Federal or Reminton 1 ounce promo loads. That should go a long ways to solving the recoil issue.

A 6 pound, short chambered gun can be brutal with a 1 1/8th max load. That is why us folks that shoot a lot of targets with their 16 gauges load 3/4 and 7/8th ounce target ammo.

If things don't work out for you and the Sterlingworth I'll be generius and take it off your hands for - oh lets say $50.00 and I'll even pick up the shipping cost.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Fortunatel, I have the lace up comb height adjuster and lace up recoil pad too - I just didnt have them with me last night. I did mount the gun with eyes closed in the mirror before shooting and it was surpringly great. My eye was right where it should be. This gun had a very narrow and sharp comb. Plus I was shooting 1oz Federals in what I'm sure is going to turn out to be a 2 9/16 gun. Getting it measured today. The gun only weighs 5.89 LBS. With the XS I can float the target but with the sterly I had to block the target out when I did get hits. I fairly used to sxs's so I wasnt mesmerized by the feel or look. Where the sterly bit me is right on the forward-bottom of my cheek bone-ouch...it just hurt when I touched it. I will go check out the comb and recoil pads immediately. Then I will try again. The kick to my shoulder didnt bother me in the least - just the face kick. At seasons end I will be sending it out to Kearcher to lengthen cones and chamber if nec and general clean-up. Sure hope I don't have to restock to make it something I can shoot though. Not cuz I mind spending the $$$ just because I'd like to keep it original.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Just measure chokes - they are .630 (extra Full) and .650 (Modified)
I will also have the chokes changed to Skeet 1/Skeet2 after all this gun is primarily for quail

Before assuming what the actual constrictions are, you must also know what the bore diameter is too. .650 will be a loose modified in a .665 bore but maybe not in a .660 bore. Same for the other barrel. "Measure twice, cut once." Always good advice.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Excellent point 16GA Guy - still, at the very least this is likely a full and modified affair. Or, full and Imp Cyl or LM

Up to you my friend. However, its an older gun with a long mysterious history. I'd feel safer knowing for sure. Who can say if the bores are original or have been rereamed and polished to a good bore surface, or if the chokes have been redone already. This might have been done a couple of times over the last , what is it, 70 years or more. The evidence of such might easily have been obscured through simple use, age, and the natural effects of oxygen, now obsolete mercuric primer compounds, and powder residue on bare steel.

Plus, years ago, tooling including reamers were often reworked and reused until used up. Uniform bores were not considered nearly as important as now, this mostly because of the advent of choke tubes in modern guns. Nor were they nearly as uniform gun to gun or even barrel to barrel as today. But, 'tis your gun and certainly your business. We can but advise. Wink

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

The more I think about it the more it makes sense that the times when I got smacked in the lower cheek bone I mustve subconsiously raised my cheek up off the comb. Even though I don't ever do that, and know better I may have done it without realizing it. The stock on the sterly is tiny. I think the LOP is fine, if anything a bit long s I my XS is barely 13"' (I have pretty short arms becasue they are so packed with muscle-ha ha) That said, I can't imagine having any shorter LOP on the sterly. But I will check it out.
Is ther any way to get the gun so I can float the target rather than cover it up - I hate covering the bird. I like to see the target float on top of the bead at least partially. When I did hit clays with the sterly I had to block the target out and pray it was still there.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

And I appreciate the advice too. I will learn to shoot this gun or bust. Whats funny is that I learned on an old ithace damasus jobby 16GA my grandpa had. I loved that gun and shot game very well with it. Maybe when I was 12 I was too dumb to know what was wrong and just focused on the target. Still, I dont remember that gun hurting my cheek - ever. Or any other gun Ive owned for that matter. Hope I don't have to restock, but will be open to having Kearcher restock it with an english stock if I have to. I'm not a collector, I just like old American Doubles. Might help to go to a fitter though before I send it to Kearcher to get precise dimensions needed. Gonna go measure bores for 16GA guy now.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

where should the measurment be taken in the bores? Just ahead of forcing cones? or where?

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Chambers measured out to 2.75" after all.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

bores measured bores to .665