16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

After disappointment with the Parker that I regrettably returned, I started surveying the market for other lightweight 16 ga. doubles, Parker and otherwise. One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a decent number of english guns that are more affordable than I realized, in the same range as the GH I sent back. Most of them are 12's, but plenty of 16's are out there too.

Some are 2 1/2" chamber, some are 2 3/4". The bulk of these offerings are 5-6 ounces one side or the other of the 6 lb. mark. Straight grips are common and some have stock dimensions close to my preference. Oddly, it seems very prevalent to find stocks that have been lengthened by adding wood.

The boxlocks all seem to be built on the same pattern, an Anson and Deeley frame. W&C Scott and W.W. Jeffery are familiar makes, the rest being mostly clones from other locations common to the British gun making trade.

Anybody have experience with any of the numerous less known makers?

WyoChukar,

The Brit guns are nice, however you can find Best side Lock German double guns at better prices. Fantastic guns with Krupp barrels and breech work. I happen to like the 16 gauge J.P Sauer guns very much and you can usually find the 16 gauge guns at decent prices.

I would also look at the high grade L.C. Smith double guns, unfortunately the graded guns like the Deluxe, with deep relief Kraus engraving have become very expensive. Doubt you will get a real good deal like on the German Best Guns.

If I was looking at Parker Guns it would be a Repro Combo set.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

L.C. Smith America's Best - John Houchins

Joined: 24 Jul 2016 Posts: 548 Location: Ohio

Jaqua's Fine Guns may have the answer to your quest.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1376 Location: Denver, Colorado

Brit BLE 12s are dirt cheap these days ($1,500 - $2,000). For the money, I don't think you can beat them. 16s cost a little more but...still well worth it IMHO for the weight and balance advantages. . German guns (& Belgians) can be good values but they are generally not as refined as the better Birmingham boxlocks and...their dimensions seldom work for me. Look for quality, not names, as many were "made in the trade" and then labelled by the retailer. 2 1/2 shells are not a problem if you plan ahead, and many have been let out to 2 3/4 and reproved.

Heydoke's book on "British Boxlocks" is spectacular for educating oneself on the topic. Most Brit 12s are in the 6 1/2 lbs range, the 16s are closer to 6 lbs and even a little under.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1307 Location: Western WA

Never heard anything bad about Brit guns in general, and absolute amazingly best gun I ever came across was a 16 ga Purdey from 1916, asking price 15 yrs ago was north of $40k. Most older Brit guns are reworked honed refinished etc multiple times like piano tunings but the Brits being the most clever people to ever trod the earth they are very careful diligent ingenious and frugal with their fine arms so no worries if you adopt their ethic. Their SxS Guns are superior in every respect especially compared to stodgy crossbolted monoblocked continental guns, you will be delighted to adopt their ways, but you must totally buy into their curiously oddball gun mindset along with the rest of their culture.

V/R
B.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

I actually spent some time amongst the British as a child, but in Sumatra, not England. They would probably consider me a eccentric hick with a Scottish dog and a fine English double, wandering the American landscape.

One thing is for sure, I don't have the depth of pocket to acquire a Purdey, and am okay with that. The guns I am eyeballing are in the $1,000-2,500 range. 12's and 16's. Right now, 2 16's are my top candidates.

WyoChukar,

There are definitely other fine Brit double guns to look at, in the used world, Boss, H&H and others. If you definitely want a Brit Best gun. However in your price range I would be looking at a J.P. Sauer 16 gauge Best side lock German double gun. For the money you want to expend I do believe what you want is achievable in a fine used German double gun.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

i looked at one, but for the same price range I have found 4 16 ga. British guns that I certainly like better. There was also an Austrian gun. I really liked the metal work on it, and hated the woodwork. I could have remedied the wood, but it was heavier than I really like. A couple 12's caught my eye too and are generally lower in price, but the 16's are edging those out right now.

One thing I am finding to be a common thread, is the guns from Germany and Belgium are usually choke very tight and the English guns are usually wide open or skeet in the right barrel and I/M or Full in the left. Of course there have been exceptions.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

WyoChukar , interested to see what you come up with . i have looking at English 16ga guns for a couple of year now .

I actually bought one with 32" barrels , but had to send it back because it was slightly off face , which they were glad to fix . But when it was returned to me the stock was cracked . So I sent it back for good . To bad as it handled really nice.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

I see a 32" barreled 16 for sale, choked cylinder and mod I think. Open right barrel anyway, so it would be a blue and ruffed grouse gun for me and I didn't feel that 32" barrels were such a good idea. I remember the slap my cheek once got when a 28" set was stopped abruptly by a small tree! Hasn't happened again, but 32" is probably an invitation for a repeat performance.

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

I think a 32" cyl/M would be great. I used to want 26" barrels for my grouse guns, 28" at the most. Now I love my 30" hammer guns on grouse (cyl/cyl and the other cyl/Full), and would love to try a 32".

WyoChukar,

As to the chokes on a good German gun, you can definitely have them opened to any thing you want. Today you have the option of using RST and Poly SpredR's if you want to use the gun as is before having the Chokes opened up.

There are some nice light 16 gauge German Best guns with 28" and 26" Barrels, DT or SST, that really work well with the 2 1/2" RST & Poly SpredR shells. Hunting Grouse & Woodcock with these guns is a pure joy. Many of the pre war guns have great wood also.

It all depends on how much money you want to expend to acquire the gun you want.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Mostly, I don't really care for the Continental guns, but there are exceptions. There is a Franz Sodia that I am pondering. I do like the engraving motif and it does have a steel trigger guard (can't stand the horn guards). The stock has the obligatory cheekpiece and pistol grip, but the way the stock is laid out, both are easily remedied...so maybe.

It's a full & full gun and as such I can dig out the reamers and make it anything I want, or leave it full and full since I might be selling the Fox to help pay for whatever I get. The one Smith is already spoken for. I'm kind of thinning the herd and upgrading these days. Still have one Smith with the stock that Macon botched.

I own quite a few Brit guns and they are all I shoot. All the rest of my shotguns sit in the case unused since I started purchasing Brit guns 20+ years ago. There is a good dealer of Brit guns in the Bozeman Hotel and I have purchased Brit guns from him.

http://www.hillrodandgun.com

If you are looking for a 16 here is one that appears to be in much original condition with good barrel thickness. It is w/o embellishment and he has been sitting on it for awhile so he might dicker on the price. It should be a Henry Monk 16 bore, if not just pan down the boxlocks until you find it.

https://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?sort=4

Good Hunting,
Mike

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Actually, I just got off the phone with Kirby. He has two others I am interested in, but one went out for inspection today. He said that one may come back since the buyer is very picky. Me? I don't really mind a scratch or two since I almost always have to refit my stocks anyway. I will check out Hill.