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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

Hardly a dog I don't like, or that doesn't like me. I've had dogs in the past, but not a real hunting dog. I have been fortunate to hunt with fellows who have good dogs. The family dog when I grew up in North Dakota was an Irish Setter, two years older than me.

So here's the question: Why should I have a setter for hunting, and which setter would you recommend?

Thanks for your input.
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win7stw
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Central, ND

Because hunting with a dog is way more enjoyable.

You are close to Berg Brothers setters. My brother and good friend have dogs from them. I am a Brittany guy but I would consider getting a setter from them.

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:51 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

The setter wishes matches your reality.....in manner of hunt, experience, home and a few dozen others.

But, a setter may not be the correct match given the above...be the setter a roft, a dual, a washed out Coverdog and so on. And, age might be best involved rather than a pup...many older dogs need a home and a purpose.

Good luck...go very slow, look at many, do not get lulled into "tradition" and, some say, look at dat dam re a pup. Idea
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:01 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I have had Brittanies and currently GSP's, but my good friend and hunting partner has had and has setters that I have hunted with. Of all of them, I like the Llewellin line the best. The reason is that they don't tend to run as big as the other setters, which I like. Some of the other setters he has had run big and the only thing you see is the point and they haven't been all that effective on pheasants. The Llewelin he has right now is really good on prairie chickens, sharptails and is getting to be a good pheasant dog too.

My vote goes to a Llewellin.

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Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:13 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern Illinois

Picking a dog breed is a really personal thing and I can’t tell you a setter is a better dog than a Gordon Setter, GSP, Brittany or any other established pointing breed. I would just suggest you go with an established breeder that provides health certifications and warranties against genital defects.

Good Go Ing Setters is just outside Minneapolis in Baldwin, WI and they have been raising setters, labs and pointers for at least two generations. They have a lot of property and you can have them take out both trial type dogs and Ryman types and see them work for yourself. There is nothing wrong with Llewellin types and some of their dogs have a little Llewellin in them. Jason is also an excellent trainer if you have any interest in that.

http://goodgoing.com/contact/

I have run both GSP and setters and both do a fine job. I like looking at the setters a little better and I have to look at them 12 months a year.

If you want to know about setters health go to:

www.Octobersetters.com

I happen to get my dogs at October Setters but they are in Idaho.

Good Hunting,
Mike


Last edited by Chicago on Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:13 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Maximum Smoke,

Lots of details enter into which Setter dog to own and hunt with. Depending on whether you are going to be a Grouse hunter, field trailer, participate in Grouse trials or even if you want a Setter for agility competition. Different Setters are bred for different jobs, pick wisely, IMO you should only own a Ryman Setter if you really intend to bird hunt with one, and the dog should be housed as part of your family.

Investigate exactly what your needs are going to be, if you're older like me you might want a Llewellyn or a Ryman/Old Hemlock for walking Grouse hunting. If you want to participate in Grouse Trials you may want one of Dave Hugh fine Grouse trial dogs. You might want a Gordon Setter from Clear Cut kennels, bred for serious Grouse hunters.

Lots of different kinds of Setter dogs to pick from, I happen to like the Ryman and Gordon Setters for the Grouse hunting I like to do, and the way they are so laid back around the house. We own 2 new puppies at this particular time. They fit into my home perfectly, interact with my deaf daughter, who also owns a Black Lab work dog, for her medical problems. All these different things matter to my family when picking a Setter dog.

Your exact criteria will be some what different, however consider every aspect as you purchase. Purchase from a breeder, get a replacement guarantee if you can.
Look into the HD testing of the parent dogs, eyes and elbows also, prior to purchasing.

Good luck with your purchase of a fine Setter dog.

Pine Creek/Dave
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

Maggie Mae our new Ryman Setter puppy, sleeping on the old game room couch.



Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:59 pm; edited 2 times in total

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old colonel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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Location: Topeka, Kansas

I love Setters and currently hunt two plus a Lab.

As others have stated, match the dog to the hunting you do and the style of dog action you like.

Also ask are you training or working with someone else?

Is it a inside the house dog or kennel dog?

How much hunting will it do (ultimately the most important factor in hunt dog training is showing them enough birds to activate and hone what is in them already)?

If a slower closer working dog is more your desire then look for setters with that strain? If speed and action is your desire then look that way.

Reading you post made me think you should look at Red Setters, though finding the right Red Setter pup will require more effort than an English Setter.

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Topeka, KS
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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:16 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

Well damn I posted a reply not long ago that apparently disappeared into the thing that Al Gore invented.

Not sure where it went and should learn by now to copy and paste.

Tomorrow will look it up Tony and see if I can find it and repost it. Not like I am the Tech Spec at the worlds number one Medical Hospital or anything for the Electronic Content Management Team. Just a little busy right now.

Ass holes and elbows, that is what I told my men all I wanted to see until I retired 25 years ago from the Navy. And still want to see from a dog after the shot.

Needs analysis. Need more data. But more than likely no, you will not be better off with a setter and not shooting a bird because the dog bumped a bird and not pointed it. We don't get as many shots as we used to why the heck do you want to waste it when you get one?

Don't care what those city folks say. Love the beauty and point of a Setter don't get me wrong. First real hunting dog was a Ryman ES because all the writers (city boys) said you had to have one. Tried going back to one a few years ago. NO. Just NO.

Growing up in the Twin Tiers of NY and Pa. despite what some would have you believe we hunted with what ever had which was almost never an ES. Or no dog at all which was most common.

The retrieve of a pointy dog is a myth. Although most will tell you they do well with FF. No. Look at many of the online videos if you want proof. And to me that is what it boils down to- recovering birds. I can get the dog on birds and hunt the dog. ES, GSP or whatever no comparison to a retriever. In SD, ND or hunting ruff in Mn.

YMMV but my opinion from a lot of years of experience. A lot of them around the Country.
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canvasback
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:50 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

Lots of breeds and bloodlines can be found to do the job afield. Effort and training by you can't be underestimated.

However the key for me is that I do well if I get a real 20 days a year afield. Usually its a bit less. So I live with the dog(s) 345 days a year when we aren't hunting. And I have found no better companion dog for living in my home than a setter. Whether alone, part of a family, young children, guests, other animals.....whatever....setters take it in stride. Literally everyone who has ever met one of my dogs in my home has said "Wow, what a nice dog. How did you get her to be so good?"

Relaxed, good natured and a pleasure to share the house with. On the look out for my fifth setter.


Last edited by canvasback on Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Cold Iron,

Maybe you need to purchase a Small Munsterlander if you are not satisfied with an ES. I have had real good luck with my Setters all of them retrieving well, especially when started with their retrieving play training as a pup. Now granted they are not in the Small Munsterlanders track & retrieving world, no ES will ever track and retrieve like a SM, just a difference in genetics.

Having trained lots of Grouse dogs, many of them Setters, Gordon, Irish & English, my experience is much different than yours and I am certainly no city boy unless Galeton, Pa has become a city. If you happen to not like Setter dogs there are Versatile dogs like the GSP and others to choose from.

My experience with Ryman Setters is much different than yours, you may have had a very soft Ryman Setter, it can happen, especially after George passed away. It also takes experience for any Setter to handle Grouse properly. The more experience they have the better they usually handle Grouse.

Pine Creek/Dave
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Old Colonel,


The Ryman Setter is a dog to house with your family, most breeders will not sell the prospective owner a Ryman/Old Hemlock Setter if the prospective owner houses the dog out in a kennel instead of their home.

Pine Creek/Dave
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

Our new Ryman Setter pup Maggie with our 8 1/2 year old male Heston.


Maggie Mae sleeping under my home office desk, as I work.

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old colonel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:29 pm  Reply with quote
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Cold Iron wrote:
...........The retrieve of a pointy dog is a myth. Although most will tell you they do well with FF. No. Look at many of the online videos if you want proof. And to me that is what it boils down to- recovering birds. I can get the dog on birds and hunt the dog. ES, GSP or whatever no comparison to a retriever. In SD, ND or hunting ruff in Mn..


Out preserve shooting today, I guess the four chukars my 15 yr old setter retrieved to hand for me today were an illusion. And the third one was a water retrieve from the edge of a farm pond where it fell.

While my two setters to do not retrieve like my Lab they do retrieve. They do track wounded birds too. And while I love my Labs, and my current Lab points with tail down, none of the three good hunting Labs I have owned have ever pointed or found birds with the same style and intensity of my Setters.

Of four setters I have been owned by three retrieved well and the fourth found dead consistently often holding the bird down with a paw.

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Michael
Topeka, KS
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old colonel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Old Colonel,


The Ryman Setter is a dog to house with your family, most breeders will not sell the prospective owner a Ryman/Old Hemlock Setter if the prospective owner houses the dog out in a kennel instead of their home.



While I agree, my old dog sleeps on my right and my young dog on my left at the top of the bed, with the lab at my wife’s feet, not everyone want’s their dogs that close, so the question must be asked, as many lines of dogs cannot thrive in a kennel.

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Michael
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win7stw
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Central, ND

[quote="old colonel"]
Cold Iron wrote:
...........The retrieve of a pointy dog is a myth. Although most will tell you they do well with FF. No. Look at many of the online videos if you want proof. And to me that is what it boils down to- recovering birds. I can get the dog on birds and hunt the dog. ES, GSP or whatever no comparison to a retriever. In SD, ND or hunting ruff in Mn..





Not a myth. My britts weren’t force fetch trained. They seem to do a great job on ND birds. Nothing against labs but I’ll take a dog that holds point versus a flusher on the late season birds here.

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old colonel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Lovely Brits

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Michael
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