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Brian
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Massachusetts

Hey everyone,

I’m upgrading to a MEC press and have a lightly used Lee Load all 2 in 16ga if anyone wants it.

$30 and shipping

Brian
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Brian
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Massachusetts

My apologies, I Meant to throw this in the wanted/for sale category!
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megasupermagnum
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Location: South Dakota

You may want to keep it for a little while at least. I hated my MEC, and went back to the Lee until I got my Ponsness Warren.
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Brian
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Massachusetts

Interesting, What didn't you like about the MEC?
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megasupermagnum
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Location: South Dakota

I should qualify that I do still have a MEC 600jr that I use for 10 gauge, and it does an adequate job. With the 10 gauge, I bought the old style steel dies. They are vastly superior to the new plastic dies. I also own the MEC supersizer to size the cases.

I still have a MEC sizemaster that I got as a gift. I do not use it anymore, as I preferred the Lee until I bought my PW 375.

I had converted my 600jr to 16 gauge, and I did not like it for 12 gauge either. First is the sizing. It is garbage is about all I can say about it. The Lee sizing ring is a huge upgrade over the MEC shell scraper that kinda-sorta sizes shells. So you have to shell out $125 bucks on a supersizer. The sizemaster has this built in, so this is the press to buy if you want MEC. The de-prime, re-prime works fine on both. Then the charge bar. Now you need a whole closet shelf full of expensive bars just to match what the Lee gives you for free. Or do as I did, and buy the adjustable one for something like $40. I do like that the MEC has a wad seating pressure gauge. It's not needed for shot, but I liked it for loading slugs. Then the pre-crimp. The MEC plastic pre-crimp does the job on most fired hulls, but does a poor job on new hulls. So then you have to fork out $30 bucks or so for the BPI brass crimp starter that MEC should have had in the first place. Finally we come to the crux of the problem, the final crimp. The cam system MEC uses is not user friendly, and not forgiving in the least. I've been loading on them for over 10 years and it still drives me mad. With your basic lead shot target loads, it's not that bad, but once you get into tighter fits like steel shot, slugs, buckshot, etc. it shows it's deficiency. So then you waste time trying things like the GAEP crimp finisher for $75 to try and get it to work.

At the end of the day, the Lee works well enough out of the box, no upgrades needed beyond a powder/shot scale. If it's not enough, don't waste time on the MEC, get a Ponsness Warren. I can't say for sure on some of the progressives, there does seem to be some legitimate reasoning for a MEC in that instance. For a single stage, the 600 JR is the worst press available. Recommending one to new reloaders, is setting them up for failure. If you absolutely have to have one, seek out at least the steel final crimp die, and prepare to buy a MEC supersizer.
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Brian
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Massachusetts

Thanks for all the info!

I think I lucked out a bit on the MEC I purchased then.
It's used and comes with the universal bar. The dies appear to be the old metal ones, but I'm not 100% familiar with them and I'm just basing it on the pictures. I'll find out for sure tomorrow when it comes.

I don't really understand how the wad seating pressure gauge works.. I've tried to do a little research on it but i haven't come up with much yet.

Perhaps I'll keep the LLA2 after all, Will find out tomorrow haha
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 1:07 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

MegaSuperMagnum says:
Quote:
For a single stage, the 600 JR is the worst press available.


Gee . . . I wonder why it is the most popular shotshell reloader ever, thoroughly dominating the single stage shotshell loader market . . . and I mean really thoroughly.

Ring resizer kinda sorta sizes shells?? -- Have you got a rough-edged ring, MegaSuperMagnum? Your story sure has a rough-edged ring (I apologize - couldn't resist). Seriously, though, there isn't much to go wrong. Do your shells not chamber? Is your resize ring adjusted to the right depth so it resizes all the way down to the hull rim? Ring resizing is the same basic concept used on the P-W you seem to like.

A collet resizer is not magic. The reason MEC employed a collet resizer, by the way, was simply to get a resizing operation into the reloading cycle of their progressives -- an operation previously only possible separate from the progressive cycle on the 650, now made part of the cycle on the Grabbers and the 9000. When the collet resizer became a distinguishing feature for MEC, I believe they couldn't resist grafting it to the 600 to produce the Sizemaster, where in my opinion it is a totally unnecessary complication and expense. Superficially, collet resizing seems like a superior idea to a swedging ring, but I can show you by measurements it does the job no better. Spring-back of metal bases after "sizing" is the same with either method. And you can't adjust a collet closer to close the collet more than completely closed. (To completely close this digression, I bet you can't write a sentence that uses closer, close and closed!)

Can't figure out how your plastic MEC cam-crimp dies produce worse results than the metal ones, MegaSuperMagnum. Though I like the feel of the old metal ones with the knurled band near the bottom, which I find handy, the plastic ones are slicker and generally have a better shape inside, and can never have a rust problem. I wonder if you have a bad combination or assembly of parts, e.g. a 16 gauge closing punch in a 12 gauge die -- you said some converting had been done. I do agree with you on the plastic crimp starters, though -- not so good on previously uncrimped hulls.

MegaSuperMagnum, you seem to like the Lee Load-All. The Load-All definitely has a market niche. It is very simple and can be very cost effective for loading relatively small numbers of very easy-to-load hulls (ones with great crimp memories such as W-W AA type and Remington and Federal one-piece and many others). For those non-plussed by adjustabilities the Load-All is the hot set-up, as it is non-adjustable! Most reloads produced on Lee Load-Alls do not have very nice rounded-edged crimps, though. Most of the time you see either dished-in shot-leakers, or belled-out mashed crimps that don't feed overly well in repeaters. Of course load height or stack height is critical to a good crimp, but it seems more so with a less adjustable crimp system. Of course bad crimps can be produced on a MEC too, but once the adjustments are understood, a fellow can produce really nice, almost factory-like crimps with a variety of hulls and materials. MEC manuals are quite helpful in that regard.

Charge bars?? -- Parts and equipment to dispense various shot and powder charges from P-W and others are not less costly. I do agree you get a lot of inexpensive bushings with a Lee Load-All.

Those who dislike the results obtained with MEC's would have to see the mountains (somewhere between 300 and 500 thousand, I estimate) of shotshells of all gauges I've reloaded on MEC's in the last 56 years -- all their horrible resizing and horrible crimps.Wink -- to believe they can easily produce great results. MEC machines have always led the way in easy adjustability, versatility and cost effectiveness. Market success proves the MEC 600 works for the vast majority.
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megasupermagnum
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Location: South Dakota

As I've said, I loaded on MEC's for over 10 years. My first was the 600Jr old style flat base, then years later I got the sizemaster, and finally a second 600jr new style. I share this info so people do not go down the path I did. I mean this in no mean way to any member here, this is nothing but free advice.

I'll start again with the resizing ring. On the good shells of it's day like the AA, STS, and Gold medal's, it did fine. The problem is with steel, and expeically hunting shells. You can adjust it to size highter brass to the bottom, but it won't eject the shell. Or you can raise the ring so it does, but then it won't fully size the shell. You can justify it any way you want, but the MEC resizing ring system is bad. Everyone kept saying as you did. It must be the way I set it up, or it must be a rough ring. Well my newer 600Jr did it too.

The collet resizer is magic by comparison, it actually works. It works with any shell. You adjust it once, and you never have to touch it again. It's the best thing MEC ever came up with. It is less complex than the resizing ring.

The cam-crimp MEC uses is so bad. Again, same comments. It must be me, I can't read directions. It must be a bad die. Well all three MEC's were bad. I even bought a new crimp die. The ONLY one I am happy with is the steel die I bought for 10 gauge. I don't know why, but clearly they were better built. I had people come over and use my presses. They would usually find I had the adjustments as good as it gets and show me. I would then break out the Lee, and make a better crimp. MEC loaders make shootable shells. They are finicky, not the prittiest, but they shells shoot.

I do like the Load-All II, I do not like the Lee loader hand dies. With the Load-All, mine always crimped great. I've had mine in 12, 16, and mine is currently set up for 20 gauge. Changeover is a breeze. Their one and only drawback is they are designed for target shells, and only crimp so deep. Something like .065". But the edges are always beautifully rounded, far superior to MEC. And don't go posting a picture of an STS loaded on a MEC. I could make an STS shell look good by crimping with my bare fingers. They are great shells.

It is true that you have to buy bushings for the Ponsness Warren. What is great is that they are only bushings for both shot and powder. Sure, the PW bushings are a little much, but Hornady bushings are the same thing, and usually cheaper than MEC. You could also buy the adapter and use MEC powder bushings. Or my choice is the adjustable charge bar for $49.99.

Current prices at Ballistic Products.
MEC charge bar $20
MEC powder bushing $5.49
PW shot bushing $5.99
PW powder bushing $7.99
HDY shot/powder bushing $4.99

So unless you only load 2 or 3 different loads, the MEC charge bars are a monumental rip off. And the space to store them is no small thing.

Now to get my MEC's to work decent, I had to do some more work to it, and this took place over 10 years. As it is, the fit of the square post in the frame is very loose. I would always find mine drifting to the right over time. So I took both 600jr's completely apart and started from scratch. I found that both were far out of square. It also seems the welding has made the shell plate bowed downward on both. There is nothing you can do about this, but it's not the end of the world. I then drilled and tapped the frame for screws so that I could adjust the square shaft left and right to get it square. I also used some pop cans for shims to ajust forward and rear. Squaring my press alone did a TON to releive problems, and the adjusting scew stopped the press from drifting side to side. For the tool head, I gave everything a cleaning, and inspection. It was here I installed a new crimping die, which I later found did not help. Also don't forget that brass crimp starter, those plastic spandex ones are no good. I took my time assembling it, and found it much improved. I still did not get better crimps, but a much more user friendly machine. Shortly after that, I bought 10 gauge dies, and the press works quite well with those.

I have since sold my newer 600Jr, still have my sizemaster (it wouldn't be right to sell a gift), and still use my older 600JR.

I've since gone to the Ponsness Warren 375, and have both 12 and 16 gauge dies on it. Changing over is a breeze. You want to talk about leading the way in adjustablility, everything on the PW is adusted with a nut. The crimper is so forgiving on loads. One nut and screw the die in for crimp depth. Another nut to ajust spring tention for the taper. Now THAT is easy adjustability.

To rehash, MEC is not easy to adjust, any shotgun forum can prove that by the mountain of problems people have. They are not versatile, they are a basic press that loads one kind of thing at a time and is a bear to convert to anything else. Above all they are the complete oposite of cost effectiveness. This is what I'm trying to save people from. With all the gadgets I bought to make MEC's work I could have bought two Ponsness Warrens.
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megasupermagnum
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Location: South Dakota

Brian wrote:
Thanks for all the info!

I think I lucked out a bit on the MEC I purchased then.
It's used and comes with the universal bar. The dies appear to be the old metal ones, but I'm not 100% familiar with them and I'm just basing it on the pictures. I'll find out for sure tomorrow when it comes.

I don't really understand how the wad seating pressure gauge works.. I've tried to do a little research on it but i haven't come up with much yet.

Perhaps I'll keep the LLA2 after all, Will find out tomorrow haha


Well you have a good start then. It is easy to tell the dies. The metal ones were shiny, and the new plastic ones are dull black. The wad seating pressure gauge is nothing but a spring connected to the drop tube. When you are seating the wad, you will be pulling the handle and the gauge will show approximate pressure in pounds. For basic lead shot loads, it doesn't gain you much, as I usually run close to zero pressure, basically just set the wad on the powder. If it seems the load is a little too tall and doesn't crimp right, often times you can add a little pressure, say 20 pounds, and this will compress the powder and give you a little room. It isn't until you are looking at heavy field loads and slugs that you will be needing 50-100 pounds of wad pressure.
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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 10:12 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

I have 2 MEC 9000's in 12 ga. One is for parts the other is hooked up to one of Ben's original automates which eventually became the 9000E.

Have a 9K in 20 ga. and 16. Only because of the automate and have a MEC 12 ga. with wax sealer without a ground plug, and that is what I started with.

But if I could do it over again, NO! Just no.

Many valid points about the MEC weaknesses especially the cam adjustment not staying the same no matter how tight you adjust it. With lock washers on both sides. Stamped steel. Tolerances are a joke. At least where I come from.

I know a Nuclear Machinest Mate Chief Petty Officer (Ret) that will verify that.

But that is putting more than 25K a year though the 12 ga. for my son and I over more than 20 years. Like most reloaders changes are not welcome on most of them. PW, Spolar (the gold standard if you don't change loads), or MEC.

In real life experience and high volume shooting\reloading.

Retired more than 25 years ago as a Nuke Eng but last 25 years as the Technical Specialist for the Electronic Content Management Systems for the #1 Hospital in the US. I might have some real life experiences to share. Not some theoretical BS. However full disclaimer, I did start out in research...

I also like my Dillon presses. A lot, especially the calendars.

Just because something is the number one seller doesn't mean squat. At least from a reliability standpoint.

Couple of years ago Dave Erickson and I shot at Woods and Meadows and MEC was sponsoring the Cranberry festival shoot. They let us shoot anyhow. Had no idea how many things you can do with cranberries...

Low volume shooters a MEC is likely fine. As long as you babysit it. Been doing it for almost half a century now. Second nature, watching those primer drops is instinctive. Even with the 200 tray on the GN.
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:41 am  Reply with quote
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OK, MegaSuperMag -- You likely have the oldest version of the 600. Your point is well taken on the ability of this press to eject high brass. It is a problem. Early on, MEC recognized this and came out with an enhanced version of the 600 -- the 700. It had a different and longer stroke camming mechanism to eject hulls of very high brass from the resize ring. Otherwise, it was identical to the 600 except for the introduction of the infamous Pro-Check. As time has rolled on, the current version of the 600 has incorporated all of the features of the old 700, and the 700 was eliminated from the line. Nice thing about the long-stroke eject feature is that it can be retrofitted easily to the oldest 600's -- two parts -- a sort of J-shaped eject rod to replace that hex-head bolt used on the old 600's, and a new eject cam with longer stroke.

Best Wishes,
Tony
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megasupermagnum
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Location: South Dakota

I do not intend this to say I think MEC is all junk, or that you can't load good shells on them. You certainly can! And it sounds like Brian got a decent set up. I listed all the problems I've found, in detail, and how to fix them. Get the brass crimp starter if you don't already, and enjoy the press. If some day down the line you find it doesn't quite meet your needs, don't start monkeying with it, simply move on.

That is all.
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Hamishtheirishamish
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2020
Posts: 64
Location: Southern Illinois

I'm not about to try to talk someone out of what they've experienced, only go by my own. I find sizing on a LLA2 nerve racking and slow. It feels like I'm about to bust the thing apart getting a hull sized.

It's also basically one quarter the cost of a 600Jr., which made it atractive at the time. Loaded a lot of dove shells on it, but I'll not use it over the 600.

Which begs the question, what's the difference between the operation of the sizing ring on the two units, other than one is attached to the unit and one is not?

I've got a Sizemaster and three 600's, plus the LLA2 I loaded on until I found a used 600Jr. to convert to 20ga. I can't understand the problems reported here with the MEC's, and my experience with crimping is definitely not the same.

I will say this, the old metal crimp starters and the old wad guide system need to come back, like NOW. The plastic stuff is servicable, but the old parts were bulletproof.

My 20 and .410 600's were converted from 12 by me, with used kits, meaning I had to set them up from scratch. The .410 kit was a 3", which I set up for 2.5" with a homemade short kit. Sizing and ejecting high brass on the 20 forced me to figure out vertical adjustments. If you don't have enough stroke to size and eject high brass, you need to unscrew the post from the base and move it to a different hole. The size/ejector bolt is a simple trip to the hardware store for longer bolts.

I have to chuckle, normally it's the Spolar/PW crowd protesting their machine is better, not the Lee owners,,,,,,,

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Here is my experience with MEC products. I have a 600 Jr. in 20 ga., 2 Sizemasters 12 & 16 ga., a 9000G16 and a 9000H12.

The newest is the 9000H12 a 1996 model.

I have used these machines for everything for short run, weigh each charge, for load development. To let's get going I need 500 rounds for tomorrow.

To date, I have replaced 1 bolt that the 9000G16 handle pivots on. The gas spring in the 9000G (MEC free of charge back in 1995), main spring on the 9000G. New 200 primer feeds for the 9000's. That's it. My 600 Jr. is still on the original wad guide as are the remainder of the machines.

Who knows how many thousands of rounds have gone through these machines.

I do preventative maintenance on them.

I haven't had issues with adjustments moving, and I probably have tried more different loads and component combinations than most folks. So I am always adjusting something.

2 1/2", 2 3/4" and 3" loads on the Sizemasters. Lead, steel and Bismuth.

The 9000's will and do make reloads that on a 10 shot string produce single digit SD's on velocity.

The Jr. and the Sizemasters are absolutely bullet proof in operation.

The 9000G will mess up on the primer now and then once every 100 maybe. The 9000H will load until you are bored with it.

My experience with folks and problem with any machine pretty much go like this. "Did you read the instruction manual?" "Well not yet"

MEC's are not perfect, but they aren't junk either.

You can pay any amount for a reloading machine and the final product won't be any better. AND all machines have problems, even the ones that are bought setup to load the components you have. Those machines are no less, and maybe more of a PITA when something does go wrong.

I can produce 225 to 250 an hour on the Jr. and Sizemasters. About 500 an hour on the 9000G and close to 600 an hour on the 9000H. With those figures not much is going wrong.

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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

I've probably put a million shells thru my 5 JR's . All sizes 2.5 up to 3'' including 10's . Takes a little patience to adj occasionally . Washers everywhere !! Never been tempted to jump to the high vol machines . Never paid more than 20 bucks for any of them . I owe them so much , they don't owe me anything for the 50yrs They've taken care of me .

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