16ga.com ~ View topic - Are you a Traditional 16 Gauge Bird Hunter?

Gentlemen,

It's no secret that because of the way I was raised in a Grouse hunting/Fly Fishing family that I happen to be a traditional 16 gauge bird hunter. My Father always advised me that I was a throw back to my Grandfathers generation, especially when it came to Grouse hunting and Fly Fishing.

The boys in our family were taught to bird hunt with a good SXS double gun, our traditional Pa Grouse hunting ethics were made famous by GBE in his many well written Grouse hunting books. These ethics are our family way of life, and GBE did a great job explaining them to the American sportsman and general public.

Edmund H. Osthaus 1858-1928 one incredible sportsman and very famous Painter of Gun Dogs would not even go into the woods with a man who used a pump gun, believing 2 shots on any covey rise, was more than enough. I have to admit my belief is much the same as his. However I make sure if a sportsman hunts with us his or her gun is only loaded with 2 shells, no matter what kind of gun they carry.
I do prefer that SXS double guns are used when hunting with us. Some due use O/U double guns and every once in a while one of the girls does use an old 16 gauge M12 pump gun.

Having mentored many sportsman in the traditional ethics of Grouse hunting and gun dog training. I am proud to relate that most carry SXS double guns, when Grouse & Woodcock hunting. When done correctly there is a lot more to our traditional bird hunting, than one might expect.

If you would like to know more about traditional Grouse & Woodcock hunting I highly recommend reading GBE's books.

Pine Creek/Dave
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

A Grouse hunter should own as many Best 16 gauge double guns as he can afford.

What states have traditional grouse populations left in huntable quantities?
None here in Texas

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Heck no! No tradition here.

I did not grow up in a hunting or fishing family.

My first job was at a gas station and one of the mechanics, Bob, had bird dogs. A springer and some kind of setter mix. I went hunting with him for pheasants once and I was hooked. I was 16 years old, 1972. I had been hunting before that with my .22 for woodchucks but this was first time for birds. I was hooked.

Bob had an Auto-5 12 gauge the light model. So I got into repeaters. I started with a Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge in 1974. Bought a 600 Jr. shortly afterward I was on my way.

I don't naturally possess fine motor skills and because of that anytime I would try a SxS I overpowered it and things didn't go well. A little heavier shotgun worked much better (still does). The next shotgun was an 1100 - LT20, 1981, got my first Brittany that year too. The next was a Sweet Sixteen when Browning offered them in 1987. That lead to Precision Reloading Inc., Trap, Skeet and eventually Sporting Clays and Iowa 1993. We were covered up in pheasants hunting just outside Clinton, Iowa with the Ladehoff family. Art Ladehoff was the owner of Big Foot Goose Decoys(The Clinton Decoy Company). Everyone I hunted with had SA's and I followed suit and I can't say I am sorry.

Not many huntable grouse populations in CT any more. But in the 1980's and 1990's, ruffs were always on the dinner table along with woodcock.

Two shots?? One shot is normally enough!! Laughing

That's why I only shoot guns with one barrel.

I still don't shoot SXS's worth a hoot. I do appreciate the looks and some of the great SxS's, but at 63 years old, gonna dance with the one who brung me.

Hard to say...I often shoot a Fox and an Auto 5 in 16 gauge for ruffed grouse but that is less tradition and most a desire based upon esthetics.
Not many gauges actually fail at that particular upland job when given a reasonable weight of neither too light nor too heavy and, especially, if triggered at the correct time.

Too heavy can even be at odds, more so than the silliness of too light...GBE, whom you name-drop, enjoyed a 7 3/4# Fox 12 in early days and likely would have stayed within that arena sans da Gifting...or in getting a bad wing.
And, his success at grouse and woodcock on the mountain marked his soul and left us with wise words to consider....and treasure.
Not many of experience would choose to proclaim.."George, bad move on the Fox!".

Thinking further, my first grouse was with a 20 single so perhaps I should get shut of the 16s...that following 20 M37 instilled a bit of tradition-like as well.
'Course, we all have a "tradition" and implying there is but a single best tradition is a tad arrogant.
Same for a focus on any bird species.
The point of a day afield, hopefully, should never be gauge or make, breed or boot, location or lucre...should be about being lucky enough to be there and....to be looking at and appreciating all elements of that day.

But, that is just one man's opinion ...and I won't even drop Bob Fluharty's name. Very Happy

Joined: 19 May 2014 Posts: 141 Location: Massachusetts

"A throwback to our grandfather's generation " one would be hard pressed to find a better compliment.

Joined: 14 Feb 2017 Posts: 401

Unfortunately, no tradition here. My father and his family grew up hunting squirrels and rabbits to feed the family but not so much when I was a kid. Weren’t many deer around. I’m 50ish and have always been a die hard deer hunter, especially bow hunter. Went thru a waterfowl spell but stopped when I lost my dog and didn’t have time to train another. That was also about the time thst everyone and their brother started hunting waterfowl. Killing was never the most important thing to me, though we were very good at it. Loved working the birds and watching my dog.
Went thru the new gun stage but now something has changed. Appreciation for older guns and hunting traditions was always strong but keeps growing. 16’s were always seen in my youth and gravitated to them. I’ve got all kinds; old and new Sweet 16, Citori, Model 12, 31, Stevens 311, Fox (unfortunately not the good Foxes), and a favorite, Hunter Arms Hunter Special, all 16’s
Jump to present day. Got back unto shooting shotguns when my kids were in college. Yearned for another bird dog and a way to incorporate both. South Dakota last year. Took most of my birds with the Hunter Special SxS.
Two Braque pups now so training again and as I near retirement, looking forward to lots of bird hunting before and after bow hunting the rut. Unfortunately I’ve never shot a grouse; heck only ever seen a blur of one, but looking forward to experiencing that too. Seems as I get older its more about the friendships, the dogs and the old guns.
I always said I was born 40 years too late but I’ll be chasing the dream. I’m just running backwards and not forward.

Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

"Seems as I get older its more about the friendships, the dogs ,and the old guns." Hayseed, I think you have the right idea. My "tradition" is more accepting and inclusive than hunting a particular bird with a particular gun behind a particular dog. Hunt safe, hunt often, everyone is welcome. Bring your pump gun, I will hunt with you.
Tramroad, I appreciate your well thought out posts.

Would you consider an Iver Johnson single barrel a "traditional 16 gauge" shotgun or, with only one barrel, is it just half a traditional 16 gauge shotgun? Not being a smart aleck. Please notice tongue in cheek.

[URL=https://www.jpgbox.com/page/57978_600x400/]

[/URL]

Joined: 14 Feb 2017 Posts: 401

Guest

My dad was pheasant hunter, and his notion of a fine gun was his single shot Winchester 37 which he claimed was a "wingshooter's gun," although he tended to use his Stevens 77 12 ga. pump. One of my older sisters started dating a farm boy from the next town up and their hills were loaded with grouse, and he introduced me to grouse hunting. We'd work as a team on the gullies and south-facing slopes, and have quite a nice life-chapter of memories and experiences from that 20 year era. My first hunting dog, half lab - half Irish Setter didn't point, and had wheels, so she stayed back. I used my 7 1/4 pound Coast to Coast Savage pump, and Dean had a Wards Westernfield pump, both 20 gauges. There's my grouse tradition.

Zeke, my first pointing dog came along in my early 30's, and shortly after I became interested in doubles, not so much for tradition, but they just seemed like an ideal bird gun, efficient, reliable, and safe. I also like their lines. I find older classic doubles interesting and I do appreciate the history and period craftsmanship, but my sweet spot is with modern doubles that fit and and handle just so. I also keep a couple autos on hand mostly for Mr. Fancy Pants and ducks.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

For me, the only important part of bird hunting is the dog and the dog work. I don't have perfect dogs, but they all work hard, point and retrieve. I give them their head and pretty much follow.

What vest, shotgun, hat, boots, ammo etc. I use, are all a distant second.

Someone mentioned friends. I have a great friend and hunting partner, his name is Buzz. 13 years my senior and still hunts as long as I care to. We have been hunting partners since 1998. After every hunt we take care of birds, dogs and guns and sit down with a nice bourbon. Is there anything better than that? I think not!! It is one of my life's greatest joys.

My dogs are gifts, I have no idea what I did to deserve them.

My son has his own dog and hunts quail in North Carolina......and he has a 2 year old son.

In a way we all make our own traditions.

Dogchaser37

Joined: 31 May 2009 Posts: 153 Location: Orofino, Idaho

I love SXS shotguns and own and hunt with them in 12,16,20 and 28 Ga.'s. However, I also love classic pump action shotguns and own three in 16 Ga.

No personal insult intended, but too often the traditionalist, SXS, pointing dogs only, fly fishing only group emit a snobbery and elitism that can be a bit hard for the average upland hunter or angler to tolerate on a mere in the field encounter. I've encountered that thinly veiled, look down the nose attitude numerous times in the field when I was hunting with a pump gun and a flushing dog; be it ESP, AWS or Chesapeake or stream/bankside as I spin fished even with artificial lures with single barbless hooks.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

^^^^^Gotta love the honesty^^^^^ tolerate is a great word.

I remember fly fishing in the no-kill section of the Willimantic river. There was this guy(40ish) outfitted & dressed right out of the Orvis catalog.

I can't remember how the conversation started, but we got talking about where the no-kill section began and I told him about 3 miles down from the water pollution control plant on Rte 32.....you have never seen someone fly out of the water as fast as he did. Never saw him again.....can't imagine why!! Very Happy

I suppose I could have told him, where Roaring Brook flows into the Willimantic, but that wouldn't have been as much fun. Embarassed

Gomerdog,

Your single barrel IverJohnson definitely falls in the traditional category. In fact my Grandparents had a similar gun, only in .410 that my Grandmother used as a Garden gun, to shoot rabbits and Grouse when they invaded her garden.

Nice old gun buddy, especially for Turkey and other large birds.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Old H&R double Hammer Guns also fall into the traditional category.