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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Cheddite, Fiocci, hulls, steel vs. brass yada yada |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:18 am
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Joined: 22 Feb 2020
Posts: 35
Location: United States
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Was trying to search the archive to understand this but couldn't get the results narrowed down. So I will ask...
In a recent discussion, it was suggested that neither fiocci nor cheddites were likely to work well in an auto loader. I was having problems with the Fioccis binding on the extractor.
In practice, the cheddites are working for me.
So my question, is it a problem with brass vs steel? Do any hulls, available for the 16, have a brass rim?
Sorry for the naive question. I've been reloading a long time and should know better. |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:32 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND
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There are no 16 gauge hulls currently made that have a brass metal head.
There is no reason that you need a brass metal head. MOST hulls haven't had a brass head since the 1990's. Just the target hulls made here in the US, and not all of them are brass.
I bought green Cheddite hulls from Graf's a few years ago. My son bought some of the red high brass Cheddite hulls shortly afterward. I have an 1100 he has a Sweet 16. Neither of us have problems with either hull in our semi-auto's. He reloads on a MEC 650. I use either a Sizemaster and a 9000G.
I would NOT lake this 'steel head shells are garbage' stuff too seriously.
Resize the hulls properly, use good reloading data and have fun. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:38 am
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Joined: 22 Feb 2020
Posts: 35
Location: United States
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:19 am
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas
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Agreed. Cheddite are good to go in all my auto5. The fiocchi I have found to have cheap thin plastic and don’t load as well as the others. I load on mec 600 mark v. Yes still like the old single stage. I started with a mec 20 years ago and never had a reason to change. Matter of fact I just bought a new 600 for 28 gauge. Know I can load without problems. Gives good crimps and plenty fast for me. I never load for speed anyway. More of a relaxing thing for me. |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:52 am
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Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas
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There are exceptions to everything, but my experience is that if you have trouble with modern steel hulled 16 gauge shells it will be with pump shotguns and not semi-autos (or SxS, O/U). I have had problems with some steel hulled shells in my pumps (see below), especially my BPS, but never in my Auto 5 or A-5 (or two barreled guns). I suspect that this situation probably has to do with the impact force of semi-auto bolt recoil (or barrel slamming forward in an Auto 5) vs. the weaker impact force of pumping the gun. I've never shot them in two-barreled guns with ejectors, as I only have guns with extractors, so I can't say whether ejectors do the job or not. Others may have different experiences.
I still shoot at game a good number of old Winchester CF hulls which mostly have brass metal heads, and have absolutely no problem with them ejecting from any or all of my guns. However, it is my belief that the brass hulls have little to do with that, while the thicker CF plastic near the base/powder burn area helps keep shells from expanding to fit the chamber much better than straight walled hulls--old ones or newer ones. Again, my opinions. |
_________________ 16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:14 pm
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Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida
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Polish those chambers and keep them clean and dry of lubricants that can bake with the heat of shooting and become "grippy" -- that's my theory on the cause of extraction trouble on repeaters, anyway. Keep your ammo clean and dry of any lubricants, too. Check extractors on repeaters that seem to give trouble, they might be worn and a bit rounded on edges meant to keep a good "hook" on the rims of hulls. |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:29 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND
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I agree with Maximum. The problem with hulls are the shotguns not the hulls. Or there is a problem with your resizer.
You have to look at it this way. Every shotgun hull today has a steel metal head except for premium target loads from either Winchester or Remington.
Every action conceivable is out there in every gauge and virtually none have a problem functioning with steel head hulls.
If you are having problems, whether you want to hear this or not, it is either a dirty action, a malfunctioning action or your reloader is not resizing properly.
I have a Model 12, an 870, a Model 37, a Hunter Special, an 1100, and a Citori all in 16 gauge and none misfire or fail to cycle or extract/eject any steel head reloaded 16 gauge hull. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:59 pm
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas
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I do have problems with some 20 gauge loads using the resize ring on the mec 600. Simple fix, run them through super sizer. Problem fixed. I do believe the super sizer is superior with the collet instead of the resize ring. Haven’t had problems with any other hulls. |
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Posted:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:56 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2165
Location: Florida
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MSM2019 wrote: |
I agree with Maximum. The problem with hulls are the shotguns not the hulls. Or there is a problem with your resizer.
You have to look at it this way. Every shotgun hull today has a steel metal head except for premium target loads from either Winchester or Remington.
Every action conceivable is out there in every gauge and virtually none have a problem functioning with steel head hulls.
If you are having problems, whether you want to hear this or not, it is either a dirty action, a malfunctioning action or your reloader is not resizing properly.
I have a Model 12, an 870, a Model 37, a Hunter Special, an 1100, and a Citori all in 16 gauge and none misfire or fail to cycle or extract/eject any steel head reloaded 16 gauge hull.
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+1 I won't say I never have an issue , but its very rare and usually something odd . |
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Posted:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1943
Location: Lowcountry Ga.
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I have had problems with NIB steel headed shells in a new 870 SuperMag that wouldn't extract, much less eject, RGL's, but ironically, had no problems with Winchester Promos. My 16 ga. M12 wouldn't extract Herters new shells. Had the same issues with Ithaca M37 16. To repeat, these were factory loaded shells. Polishing the chambers had no effect. Gil |
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Posted:
Sat May 30, 2020 5:30 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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+1 Gil - some of them are pretty bad right from the box !! |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:54 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND
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If the fired hull will slide out of the chamber but the shell wouldn't extract, 10 to 1 the extractor has rounded edges or the extractor spring is weak or both. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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