| Author |
Message |
| < 16ga. General Discussion ~ Help me narrow choices on 16 ga. |
|
 Posted:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:31 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 680
Location: MAINE
|
|
| canvasback wrote: |
| Flyfishr wrote: |
I am not a fan of straight stock / splinter forearms on doubles. Prefer PG and beavertails. 
|
I like an assortment of straight and POW, Depending on the gun and prospective quarry. But beavertails are non-starters for me.
[url=https://jamesroblin.smugmug.com/Firearms/Multiples/i-RvcmHR3/A]
[/url]
|
aA
Absolutely stunning ! Shoot them in good health ! |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
| Posted:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:37 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 680
Location: MAINE
|
|
| Pine Creek/Dave wrote: |
Chicago,
Mike I agree however I still recommend he look at the 16 gauge Classic guns, either American or Euro. However the modern CSMC guns or the AYA 16 guns would definitely be another option for a great 16 gauge double gun. I still prefer the hand made, fit and finished double guns above all others. Just my opinion!
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
|
I'm pretty sure the CSMC Fox guns are hand made fit and finished .
I like my original Foxes but the CSMC Foxes are sooo much better . |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:30 am
|
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
|
|
gunsrus,
Actually most of the work is done on CNC machines and then some hand work is done on the final fit and finish.
I do agree the Fox guns are quite nice and have all the modern metals, chrome lined and attention to detail needed to make a great gun. All of Tony's guns are great modern made stuff.
However I am into original Classic American and Euro side lock double guns, I do have a few modern guns also. If I can get my hands on a pre 13 L.C. Smith those are the guns I most want to hunt with and own. My buddy Ken Graft is into original Fox & Parker guns and also owns the modern Fox & Parker guns with Roy's incredible engraving. He also owns one the finest early 16 Gauge Purdey guns that was ever made. Its all depends on where a mans interest happens to be, and what gun fits him best for his bird hunting. Mac was into Fox guns and we had some great conversation about Fox and L.C. Smith guns, he also owned some nice modern guns. For me nothing beats an early Purdey or L.C. Smith double gun. However if Tony would make a modern L.C. Smith 28 gauge or a 16 gauge double gun, say a #5 gun, I would place my order right now, for sure. I definitely like well made modern double guns, AYA makes a #1 & #2 gun in 28 and 16 gauge I really like.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
Ken's original 16 gauge Fox with upgraded stock. One serious Fox double gun.
|
_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:46 am
|
|
|
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1310
Location: Western WA
|
|
I like the AyA #2 Round Body sidelock in my cabinet but that AyA Bournbrook A&D boxlock looks like it might be a better idea, lighter, simpler, more compact.
For the life of me, after shooting one for dozen years I don't know what the point of a sidelock is anymore. The engraved real estate looks nice but it doesn't bring down birds or break targets. The supposed advantage of the interceptor sear seems questionable with modern materials and manufacturing quality. And the removable locks are pointless if you have to send in the gun to replace firing pins anyway.
The sidelock reminds me of the overly ornate Victorian door handles of Great-grandma's parlor...an artifact of obsolete design and taste. Not sure I really appreciate them any more. I think I now prefer the boxlock.
V/R
B. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:58 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:13 am
|
|
|
|
|
| Flyfishr wrote: |
I grew up shooting an LC Smith 16 ga. So I am very fond of the gauge and not afraid of sxs.
Been thinking about adding another to the stable. Currently have a Rizzini round body O/U in 16.
Here are my choices:
Win 21, either pre-owned (about $7500) or new ($16k) from CSMC, weight about 7 lbs.
Perazzi Mx-16, scaled frame, weight about 7.2 lbs, cost about $15k
Rizzini, regal deluxe, weight about 7 lbs, cost about $7,500.
If cost was not the deciding factor, which way would you go?
Not asking you to pick a gun for me, but am interested in your thoughts of the three listed.
|
You already have a very nice 16 gauge OU in your Rizzini, so I would be looking for a SxS.
As you know already, there's nothing wrong with a 7 pound 16 gauge. 16 gauge guns are about in-the-hands feel, and the heavier end shoots better.
A 21 stocked to fit would be my choice. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:14 am
|
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
|
|
Brewester11,
You should definitely purchase the Box Lock gun of your choosing, if you like that particular engineering gun design. IMO however I will always take the Purdey self opener and the L.C. Smith #5 gun, over any box lock gun, even with side plates. Comparing a Box Lock double gun to a Side Lock gun is the same as wanting to drive a VW instead of a Mercedes, the VW will get you around the same as the Mercedes, however they are vastly different engineering.
Each to his own, LeFever built some real nice Box Lock double guns.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:52 am
|
|
|
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were
|
|
| Flyfishr wrote: |
I grew up shooting an LC Smith 16 ga. So I am very fond of the gauge and not afraid of sxs.
Been thinking about adding another to the stable. Currently have a Rizzini round body O/U in 16.
Here are my choices:
Win 21, either pre-owned (about $7500) or new ($16k) from CSMC, weight about 7 lbs.
Perazzi Mx-16, scaled frame, weight about 7.2 lbs, cost about $15k
Rizzini, regal deluxe, weight about 7 lbs, cost about $7,500.
If cost was not the deciding factor, which way would you go?
Not asking you to pick a gun for me, but am interested in your thoughts of the three listed.
|
If you aren't afraid of it...a P1960 Browning Sweet 16 w/ solid rib choked M and, then use any money saved in a medical procedure to stop from constantly grinning.
Of those listed and for the uses noted, the Model 21, of course. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:12 am
|
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
|
|
tramroad28,
I do like the M21 guns however I do not want to carry that kind of weight when Grouse hunting. Give me the L.C. Smith pre 13 16 gauge gun any time.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:30 am
|
|
|
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were
|
|
| Pine Creek/Dave wrote: |
tramroad28,
I do like the M21 guns however I do not want to carry that kind of weight when Grouse hunting. Give me the L.C. Smith pre 13 16 gauge gun any time.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
|
The original poster did not list the pursuit of ruffed grouse as an activity for the new scattergun.
That said, weight is over-valued in a ruffed grouse gun and a Model 21 in either 16 or 20 would serve well in practical real world measurements....less so on message boards in off season.
Somewhere, here or elsewhere, I saw a photo of a well-worn 20 gauge M21, a hunter and a grouse.
I find it difficult to imagine that fella would have worn the blue off had the gun not well performed the woodsy sashay....a 16 is unlikely to have been a deal breaker either.
A classy, efficient, dare I say, traditional and sure choice is the M21....given reasonable particulars...particulars not as foreign as many imply when the m21 is mentioned.
Additionally, here is a nod to all those terrible guns which are as imperfect as us all and which still perform as, hopefully, do we.
Perfect, like weight, is waaay over-rated.
imo |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:02 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:27 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:56 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 685
Location: Ontario
|
|
| Pine Creek/Dave wrote: |
Brewester11,
You should definitely purchase the Box Lock gun of your choosing, if you like that particular engineering gun design. IMO however I will always take the Purdey self opener and the L.C. Smith #5 gun, over any box lock gun, even with side plates. Comparing a Box Lock double gun to a Side Lock gun is the same as wanting to drive a VW instead of a Mercedes, the VW will get you around the same as the Mercedes, however they are vastly different engineering.
Each to his own, LeFever built some real nice Box Lock double guns.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
|
Dave, I appreciate you love your guns. As you should...they are wonderful. But I think you err when you describe boxlocks as VW's to the sidelocks as Mercedes. I would suggest the following boxlock is the Maybach to any sidelock Mercedes you care to compare it with.
The truth is we can have our favorites without denigrating those which don't strike our fancy.
|
_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:14 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 367
|
|
Sound like a dream to me.
But youknow what you want.
What a decision to make. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
,
