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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ I Give Up |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:38 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1310
Location: Western WA
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I'm finished with trying to reload Fiocchi hulls. Yes the plastic makes pretty crimps and seems to last forever. But the weak brass, or whatever metal the rim is, makes the reloads impossible to function in my repeaters. The rim expands after a reload or two and creates the nastiest jams imaginable in the A5 and M12, even after firm treatment with the Supersizer. I had to pound out a jammed live round in the A5 at the range with a blooper stick, after fully disassembling the gun. This was all done at the shooting station, no loaded live rounds allowed off the range proper. Then after the M12 jammed, the cartridge ejector ended up squeezed into the back of the receiver. What a mess.
No such problems whatsoever with Cheddites, Rio, Rem, Fed, etc.
The O/U and SXS guns can digest the Fiocchi reloads but the base wads become dislodged after a couple firings and the rims split and leak gas all through the actions.
So that's it, life's too short for such troubles.
Cheers
B. |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:05 pm
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 523
Location: Texas
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Agreed. Learned long time ago Fiocchi hulls were junk. Still have about 100 of them. I refuse to mess with them. There are way better hulls out there and no issues with crimp or the heads. |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:54 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3438
Location: Illinois
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That's THE only hull I leave on the ground when found. |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:54 pm
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I never mess with reloading Fiocchi hulls. |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:36 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1842
Location: Central ND
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Yikes,
While they aren't my favorite hull, I haven't had any problem with Fiocchi's in my M12 or any of my other shotguns.
Are you resizing the hulls back to within 0.003" or so of factory minimum, which is 0.735". So the resize would be 0.738".
I honestly do not have eject/extract problem with any hull (brass or steel) in any shotgun.
All of my shotguns have chambers that are within SAAMI tolerances which is 0.745" to 0.750", measured right at the very breech end of the chamber.
Not trying to be an a*****e about this. I just wonder why reasonably good ammo (Fiocchi ammo is good stuff) and the hulls that the company uses are such a problem in some situations. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:48 pm
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Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas
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B11,
Ditto on Fio-bloopies. Poorest hull out there in 16 for reloads IMO. I've got a BPS that does the same with new Fiocchis, get the pool cue out to eject from chamber in most cases. No fun if the dogs are pointed and the truck is a quarter of mile away.
It seems to me that there are minor differences in each brand of ammo, differences that may or may not show up in a particular gun. Minor differences in hull steel/brass thickness, rims, expansion, etc., plus minor differences in a gun's chamber could and does cause issues with some guns.
The relatively new Model 800 Remington I have barely ejects Remington ammo, new or reloaded, but throws everything else well clear of the gun. Go figure. |
_________________ 16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke |
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Posted:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:56 pm
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Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 456
Location: New Jersey
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Normally the only “new” ammo I shoot is Fiocchi. But most of what I shoot are reloads. Cheddites in the 16’s and AA’s in my 12 gauge Elsie that I use for vintage clays. |
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Posted:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:55 am
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Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 456
Location: New Jersey
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Normally the only “new” ammo I shoot is Fiocchi. But most of what I shoot are reloads. Cheddites in the 16’s and AA’s in my 12 gauge Elsie that I use for vintage clays. |
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Posted:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:04 am
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Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 567
Location: wheeling, wv
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At the Northern SXS this past weekend, I was shooting my VHE Parker 20 and my buddy was shooting an absolutely pristine Remington 17 20 ga pump on the small bore course. He had new Fiocchi 20's and his gun jammed after every shot. I had Federal Top Guns + my AA reloads. These worked fine in his gun, no problems--and of course the Fiocchi's worked fine in my Parker. When we got back to the truck, I just traded my Feds for his Fiocchi's. His extractor was ripping the rim off of the Fiocchi's--they are a little "hotter" than my reloads, but I will shoot them up. |
_________________ we salute you bird of thunder |
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Posted:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:36 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2067
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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mark , have had that story repeat in 12ga and 16 . I would guess a softer basewad . Just doesn't seem to occur with the Chedds or Feds (love that paper cushion myself ). |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:21 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1310
Location: Western WA
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Quote: |
Are you resizing the hulls back to within 0.003" or so of factory minimum, which is 0.735". So the resize would be 0.738".
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Resize with Supersizer is same for Fio, Ched, Rio, etc: 0.735-0.736, not a problem.
Diameter AFTER firing from M12 is also the same: 0.743, not a problem.
Problem is the rim: After a few firings the Fio rim diameter ranges up to .836 and rim thickness up to .083, compared to .816 and .065 respectively for Cheddite hulls. As a result the headspace is too tight, and the extractor hook is pinched into its recess, making chambering and extraction extremely difficult.
Why the rim becomes blown out is unknown, possibly metallurgical flaw or a leaking basewad. Loose basewads are a chronic problem after a couple firings. Whatever the reason, the blown out rims make the hulls useless, and possibly outright dangerous.
B. |
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Posted:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:25 am
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Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 171
Location: VA
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Hypothetically speaking .... for curiosity and the good of the order...
If one wants to buy new primed hulls to self load, that are not Fiocchi, the question becomes:
Is there any significant difference between Cheddite and Rio?
Cheers!
jpm |
_________________ VA -- eastern slope of the Blue Ridge, South of the James, North of the Staunton
2007 Browning Citori Lightning Feather
2007 Browning BPS Upland Special
1947 Browning Automatic-5 (stealth Sweet 16) - ventilated Poly-Choke
1937-42 Savage 430 |
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Posted:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:26 am
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1310
Location: Western WA
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There is a difference between Rio and Cheddite hulls. Rio hulls require Rio primers. Rio primer pockets are larger diameter than Cheddite, so Cheddite primers will fall out of Rio hulls. But Rio primers can be used in Cheddite hulls.
B. |
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Posted:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:02 pm
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 640
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA
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had some what of the same problem with rem hulls, after a few reloads they jammed up some of my older guns, like my 1946 Ithaca 37, with tighter chambers, but worked fine in my newer guns. the solution was to use the older rem peterson hulls in my older guns, no more jams |
_________________ 16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920 |
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Posted:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:22 pm
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 523
Location: Texas
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Had a similar problem with gun clubs( reloads) found out that resize ring was to low and flattening out the brass head to much. Slight adjustment and back in business. They would fire just fine but the extractor would jump past the rim and leave the shell stuck in the chamber. It would be necessary to use a cleaning rod to remove fired shell. |
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