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Xrayoneone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 2

Hi All,

I joined 16ga.com when it first went online, but I don’t know if I’ve ever posted here. Anyways, I have a JP Sauer & Sohn snap action hammer drilling that I think was made pre-1912. Chamber cast indicates it’s a 9.3x74R. I thought it was a 9.3x72 SAUER, which it might be because the two rounds are very close in size. A dummy 9.3x74 that I made chambers and the action closes with the dummy round chambered. The only legible proofs on the rifle barrel is an Eagle, a Crown R, 8.9mm, and a date of either 810 or 870. It looks like the Crown R was stamped over another proof and there is a very faint Crown G. Also it looks like an area was filed to remove something with the 8.9mm stamped in that area. All three barrels are mirror bright, no frosting, no pits.

There are no NITRO proofs on any of the barrels. ALL three barrels have a CROWN R proof. This would indicate it was either reproofed, or repaired at some point. I do not know if the Crown R was done pre-1945, or If it was done in East Germany (if my guess of 870 is correct it would indicate East German).

HERE IS MY QUESTION: If the barrels received the Crown R would the proof house have also been required to stamp the Crown N? Or does the Crown R simply mean it was repaired and no additional proofing was performed?

Thanks

PS, the shotgun barrels are 16ga 2 3/4” as well. So this is kind of a confusing gun. My guess is that it was a 9.3x72 with 2.5” shotgun chambers that was re-chambered in August 1970, hence the Crown R’s.
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hayseed
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 401

I have absolutely no knowledge to share with you but welcome.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:57 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello Xrayoneone
and
WELCOME on your first posting

Start here

https://www.shotguns.se/html/germany_1890-1945.html

The Crown R is for reproof and not repair

Date mark: Can be used from 1912 but was not a legal demand before 1922

Being a hammer drilling, I might suspect the 9.3x72R Sauer

http://www.cartridgecollector.net/93-x-72r-sauer-sohn

So, does the chamber case have a shoulder?

Mike

P.S. How do you know the 16 barrels are 2 3/4?

P.S.S. The 9.3x74R is a very powerful cartridge and I would be VERY careful in its use in older drillings. My two cents is NOT !


Last edited by skeettx on Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Jta5er
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 266
Location: Ky

I would post question on shotgun world under German guns. Raimey will answer your questions but needs pictures.
I have many German shotguns but all have the word nitro on lower side of barrel near breech or on barrel flats.
I have noticed imported early German fluid steel with no nitro but they usually say Krupp Essen of flaus stahl somewere on barrels.
Ask Raimey he will most definitely know.

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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:04 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1972
Location: Maine

What Skeettx said - the 9.3x74R is a cartridge in the same class as, say, the 375 H&H Magnum. Most African countries consider it suitable (i.e., legal) for most of their large game.

The old 9.3x72R cartridges were originally black powder cartridges roughly equivalent to the .38-55 Winchester.

Huge difference.

You should also consider there are a number of different 9.3 x 72R cartridges. the most solid number I have is "5" different cartridges.

You barrels would have a very prominent "Nitro" in one of two forms of script on the barrels, not the flats, if they were made for nitro loads. The different script would tell you whether the gun went through the proofhouse at Suhl, or at Zella-Mehlis. Each had it's own script typeface for that stamp.

No nitro stamp, not originally proofed for nitro. Could have been reproofed for it later.

As in many of these inquiries, of course, good, clear pictures are most helpful.

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Xrayoneone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 2

My Question is pertaining to the Crown R. Pre-1945 it was used by Germany as a reproof. Post 1945 it was used by East Germany as a repair proof. Looking for anyone who has knowledge as to the whens and whys the Crown R would be used. Not everything would have required a trip to the proof houses. I was looking for specifics on German proof laws. The books are rare and mainly in German. I was hoping someone may be a collector at that level and would have the reference material.

I have 9.3x74 rifles. The 9.3x74 was made specifically for break action guns. Many people make the erroneous comparison to the 375 H&H 62,000psi load, which is wrong. It’s akin to the 375 Flanged Magnum that has 47,000 psi. So the 9.3x74 is “high pressure” compared to a 9.3x72, but it is “low pressure” compared to most modern loads. Rechambering was a fairly common practice and my guess is that is the case here.
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Cheesy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 162
Location: SWMO

Jta5er wrote:
I would post question on shotgun world under German guns. Raimey will answer your questions but needs pictures.
I have many German shotguns but all have the word nitro on lower side of barrel near breech or on barrel flats.
I have noticed imported early German fluid steel with no nitro but they usually say Krupp Essen of flaus stahl somewere on barrels.
Ask Raimey he will most definitely know.


This.
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ohiochuck
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Jul 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Ohio

If you still are looking for answers these two forums will be able to help
German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com and/or
The German Gun Collectors forum
Jim
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