16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  Any DIY methods?
MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:18 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Dave Erickson, Long ago I had Bob Odenthal do some choke work for me. He doesn't seem to want to tell his customers how he does things, but he did mention he would be drawing the reamer through the barrel. I'm certain my facial expression conveyed my surprise at this. He repeated what he said and was very particular about using that specific word, as if it was his own special process. I found that interesting, as I assumed everyone pushed the reamer, which necessitated bore-centering bushings to keep the relatively long flexible reamer drive shaft straight when under compression and torsion. But no, Bob said he drew the reamer through the choked area. I always presumed he pulled from the muzzle end. Bore-centering guidance is practically unavailable that way, so maybe Bob knows such guidance is unnecessary, just as John Singer intimates. But maybe, if Odenthal indeed does pull the reamer, he does so from the chamber end, in which case guide bushings might or might not be necessary. I'll have to ask him sometime, but our paths seldom cross, and he might be as unwilling to discuss his process as ever.

In any case, Bob's choke work for me was quite satisfactory. He would not, however perform choke work on my 24 gauge -- flat refused, no explanation. I presume it was because it would involve a tool he did not have, and if he had purchased it, he couldn't imagine he'd ever need it again. He also might have presumed my bores were chrome lined (Beretta 686), and that would hazard the integrity of any reamer he could imagine for that size, and he therefore couldn't predict a price that would make a profit, nor might he not have wanted to risk a dissatisfied customer if reaming a chrome lined bore with a HSS tool didn't work out. All those are good reasons for a fellow to refuse odd-ball work when he has more predictably profitable things to do with his time.

I always figured a "B" size adjustable reamer (.5313" to .5938") would do the job for my 24, but they seem only available in HSS, not carbide. Not sure if my particular Beretta barrels are chrome lined or not, but I have dug up references to an article on the subject of reaming chrome bores written by - Taa Daaa! - Mike Orlen! Try this whole thread from Shotgunworld: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=453473 So what I want has been done, and Mike Orlen can do it. I might have to work up the courage to try it myself sometime. Meanwhile, for this 24 gauge, I have been using the 20/28 size Spred-R device from Polywad Manufacturing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:27 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

I am using both methods, had a professional open some my chokes on my tight L.C. Smith gun and I have used RST & Poly SpredR's. Both work. I would never work on my own L.C. Smith or J.P. Sauer double guns, have always used the pro's. Unfortunately both Rich Painter & Freddie Brunner have retired and I miss their professionalism badly.

Briley does great work and so due a few others like Jerry Andrews in WVa.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
double vision
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:50 am  Reply with quote
Guest





TONY, when I was at Bob's shop the other day he told me he hones the chokes. What that all entails I have no idea, but I do have a bore gauge and his tapers are always smooth and constrictions and patterns dead-on. I had Orlen open a Merkel 1620 barrel up once. I asked for .005 and the end constriction was .002" The bore gauge needle looked like it was on a minimum maintenance road for the last 2 inches of barrel. Personally I think he screwed up and then jugged it to cover the mistake. Those were $3000 barrels. I trust Bob and so do a lot of other guys with nice guns.
Back to top
double vision
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:41 am  Reply with quote
Guest





Here's one of several informative discussions regarding the altering of chokes. I tend to go to doublegunshop when I want learn things.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=418171&page=1
Back to top
John Singer
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

A smooth, polished choke is not necessary a good thing.


I have an old copy of Jack O'Conner's The Shotgun Book. In his chapter on chokes, he wrote the following:

"This whole business of constriction is complicated by the fact that the surface of the choke itself has an important bearing on the density of patterns. It would seem reasonable to assume that the choke with a very smooth surface would pattern better than one with a rough surface. Actually, the opposite is true."

"Experiments by Oberfell and Thompson verify the necessity for a slight roughness of the choke for the best patterns."

_________________
John Singer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tramroad28
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

I believe it was Lujtic that incorporated circular ridges within their choke section....the rationale, I forget but it sold for awhile.
Lot of ideas have been cast out...some floated, some did not....crazy Trapshooters. Very Happy

I'm of the mind that wad/shot ease entering and leaving a choke is important ...probably illustrates why, maybe, pellet distribution over say, 30" involves far more than a constriction.

Self scratching a bore or choke section has worked in varying degrees since folks were bored and tools were sold.
IF...a problem does result from self-fiddles...should one find recourse from their spouse?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jswanson
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 830
Location: Adirondak Mtns

[quote="Dave Erickson"]Get it done right by an experienced gunsmith who pilots the hone from the breech. Last thing you want to do is mess up your point of impact, or worse.

Mike Orlen is cheap and fast.

I use Bob Odenthal in Prior Lake, MN. Not cheap, but never a doubt and always perfect.[/quote]

_________________
Interested in older US made SxS and upland hunting. New to reloading shot shells and looking for info and advice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:31 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Dave E -- Thanks for the info and the link. Very interesting. I have had my Fox Sterlingworth 16 and a couple of 16 gauge Model 12's done by Orlen. The constrictions seem to be exactly what I asked for. They seem to be simple parallel-to-bore removal of material -- no taper in the most constricted area on the muzzle end, but a ramp down to that diameter from where the choke originally started. This is what one would expect from a reamer of constant diameter or one pushed all the way through the muzzle. I admit I have not been a dedicated "pattern-er" Embarassed , so I really can't quantify how good those guns shoot, but the results with them in the field and on the range seem to be what I wanted.

With Orlen I did experience total turnaround times of one week from my delivery to the post office until barrels returned to my door -- every time. Mike was always good to work with. I would call, explain what I wanted, then write it in a letter I would package with the barrel(s). I will say I was not impressed with the look of the finish on the chamber lengthening and forcing cone work, as well as the choke opening on my Sterlingworth -- all done on the same "order". The finish doesn't drive my bore gauge nuts on ruts, but it doesn't appear to be as fine, smooth and reflective as the bores were originally. I did call Mike on that, and he really did not have anything to say about it -- simply said shoot the gun, and would say no more. I did not want to rough him up about it; I just wanted to understand it, so I let it lie. I suppose I could gin up a honing exercise to make it look more pretty, but I'm lazy and I think the gun works as I intended. What I think is what's important here, right?? Confused Laughing

Though I have to say I'm satisfied with the results Mike Orlen's work, Odenthal's shop is not at all far from where I live. It does sound like I should give Bob another try if the opportunity to open another choke or two arises, but the only thing remotely close to the horizon in that department is my 24 gauge, which he has refused to do, and the pattern density of which I think I have altered successfully with the Spred-R inserts. There's that "think" word again . . . Is it time I checked that out with some patterning work? I do seem to break the targets and down the birds with this gun -- do I really want to know "the truth", or would it just distract me from my shooting? For a guy claiming to be a man of science I sure am lazy about it!! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hammer bill
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:39 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

John Singer wrote:
The OP is asking about DYI means of opening fixed chokes on shotguns.

Spreader loads do not appeal to me. Also, I have limited financial means. I hunt and fish with my limited disposable income. I understand the question.

I have opened fixed chokes on several shotguns. I often did so because I wanted to use these guns with steel shot.

I own two adjustable reams. They cost $25 to $30 each. I have a "C" size and a "D" size reamer. This allows me to open chokes on 12, 16, and 20 gauge guns.

I have often heard that one can affect the point of impact by reaming a choke. I find it impossible to change the point of impact of the gun with a reamer.

I have tried to change the point of impact on a 16 gauge double where the left barrel would not shoot to point of aim. The reamer naturally follows the bore, and the point of impact did not change.

I ended up correcting the point of aim of the gun by other means.

Here is an article about opening chokes:

https://www.gun-tests.com/accessories/adjusting-fixed-chokes-in-single-barrel-guns/

Mike Orlen wrote an article about this a while back. He may have written this article, I am not sure.

The best way to do this, is ream the choke and then fire a pattern. Repeat until you achieve the pattern you want.


John, i have done the same. You are correct about not changing the Impact. I also have a limited income but have been reaming chokes for 40 years that way. Those adjustable reamers are a dream and not expensive. I got mine from Brownell.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 2 of 2
Goto page Previous  1, 2
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. General Discussion

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09