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Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

I used my cell phone flashlight, I was amazed at how well it worked. I could see single grains.

I had 120 7/8 loads in Ched and Fiocchi, DR16 and Rem SP16 wads. Most ad never left my reloading room.ALLL had a few grains of Green Dot past the powder cup. One really bad, It must hive made the ride to the range and back, cut that one apart. And one was a factory Fiocchi with Guliani sg16. NOT a single grain migrated.

As I accepted a few grains, I stood the loads up in the bottom of a 12 ga box. 15 to the bottom layer, 15 more above. 30 rounds per box, flap won't close. I think that keeping them upright will prevent migration on the washboard road to the range. And keeping them boxed will prevent migration in my vest pockets too. I was getting bloopers at station 4&5 of Clays.

BPI sg16s on order, two bags. Freight is a killer, bringing the price up to 5 cents each. If they work for my 7/8 oz, I'll buy a case next time I need primers.

eta: I remembered I have 2 dozen CB100-16, so I loaded a couple each in all my assortment of hulls- Ched Fed & Fiochhi, WW and PMC. . No migration. And no good crimps either. It's like 7/8shot won'tfit in a 1oz wad. I need to trouble shoot something in the loading, but no migration is a good thing.

Casebro,
From the school of hard knocks, and misfires on pheasants and quail:

Load the old WAA 16 wads in Winchester/Western CF hulls. The base of the wad is approximately 0.618, designed to fit the thicker, tapered base of these hulls.

I've got some clones of the WAA16 wad--Claybuster CF0100-16 wads--around here somewhere, but where? I'm told the base of these wads has been modified to work in todays modern straight-walled hulls such as Cheddite, Rio, Fios, etc. In other words its diameter is much greater than the old WAA16, and will seal powder migration even in modern straight-walled hulls. But I can't find one right now to measure it.

The Remington SP16 wad was designed for thick-walled Remington hulls (the thinner walled "European" straight walled hulls weren't on the American market when the SP16 wad came out in the early 70s as far as I know). It has a base diameter of appx. 0.628. However, it works great in the tapered W/W CF hulls also. After I learned to blow the quail feathers out of empty hulls 30 years ago, I don't think I have ever had a blooper in a reloaded CF hull with a Rem SP16. (Give me some 540 or HS-6 powder, and I've got a pretty close load to the old original Mark V Winnies--bingo.)

The SG16 wad from BP is designed for the modern straight-walled hulls. It has a base wad diameter of appx. 0.650, which is much closer to the nominal diameter of a 16 gauge at 0.665 or thereabouts. These wads do not work well at all in old W/W CF hulls and they will be tight in Rem hulls (and probably drive up pressure quite a bit).

You may note that there is approximately 0.032 inches difference between an old WAA16 wad base diameter and a SG16--a rather dramatic difference that results in powder migration when the wrong wad is used in the wrong hull.

When Winchester went to "European" straight walled hulls for its 16 gauge loads around 2000, I bought a box of HV 7.5s to put in my first barrel for quail/pointed pheasants while hunting in KS. After I shot them up, the mistake bore fruit, as I loaded them up with SP16 wads. After carrying them in a hunting vest, NONE of them would shoot while bird hunting. Powder migration--shot was full of loose powder. Lesson learned.

Use the right wad for the right hull in 16 gauge.

Relative to your statement that "Its like 7/8 shot won't fit in a 1 oz. load" in reference to the CB0100-16 wad, this wad (and the old WAA16) have a crushable midsection that shortens when crimped to the proper height. They are designed that way, unlike the "solid" mid-sections of the SP16 or SG16 (a post!), which require load recipes that bring the shot charge to the proper height for crimping. Crimp away, even when the shot is half way up the crimp section, they will crush down, and they will do fine.

Joined: 17 Oct 2019 Posts: 456 Location: New Jersey

I only load Cheddites for the 16 and use SG-16’s. I’ve never once had a blooper. Right now I have the blue Cheddites. Is it possible to see if I’m getting migration with the cell phone light? Or is what I’m using pretty much trouble free? I’m also looking into starting to use some fiber wads. I guess this is something I need to be concerned with using them.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

You will not get powder migration with any hull/powder using, the DR-16, SG16, and Z2M wads or any other wads made by Gualandi or Bascheri & Pellagri.

The culprits are the Remington SP-16 wad in any hull except the Remington RGL style or Winchester CF hulls.

There are certain combinations of the CB0100-16 & CB0078-16 along with finer grain powders that will migrate in some hulls.

A few granules of powder does not constitute powder migration. That is more of a static electricity issue which happens almost all the time. You can chase the problem if you want........to drive yourself crazy.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

As far as bloopers go....reloads should be no less reliable than factory ammo.

If you are getting bloopers something is wrong with the machine or the machine operator is doing something wrong.

Or you have bad loading data.

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Ok, I loaded a box of 30- I use 12ga boxes, 6 layers of 5. 30 is about right for 5 stands of Clays.

I got the Hornady 366 all adjusted for the longer hulls. I think I mentioned that I made dies and plates etc to convert a 12 to a 16? Well, Looks like I machined the wad holder from a 20 ga part. It worked fine on all those substandard Smile

wads, but the SG16's have to be forced in. They kind of snap home, but PITA. Back to the lathe with that.

Joined: 07 Jun 2020 Posts: 228

Maybe I am lucky, but in 40 years of reloading I have never experienced a blooper from powder migration, though nor have I seen significant powder loss from migration.

I have seen some powder migration, and repeating the experiment on the reloads I have around the bench seen a few flakes and that is it.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 755 Location: Mn.

I only load Cheddite and DR16 with 7/8 oz. for the 16 with Green Dot and now IMR Green, thousands of them. Now that Herters is no longer available at a decent price will eventually start loading 1 oz. But I don't like making changes and will load up a couple thousand 7/8 oz. before I do.

A few flakes of powder is most likely static electricity especially when they are new MSM2019 is right about that. I dump my hulls in the bin next to the loader and use a dryer sheet and just run it through them for less than a minute. Pull a shell out after you drop the powder and check for powder on the walls. You would think the wad would push it all down, but it doesn't. I don't find any flakes of powder above the wad if I run a dryer sheet through the hulls first. But don't loose any sleep over a few flakes if I did see them.

Never had a blooper with any of my 16's. My DR16 Cheddites have been carried long distance over some pretty rough roads including a couple miles of washboard. But my Taco does have the TX Baja Suspension Very Happy

When Euro shells first started coming over it was common for those factory loads to have bloopers in the winter especially if they were stored in the back of the truck or in a garage where they could get cold soaked. One of the privileges of living in the coldest area of CONUS, you find out about things like that.

About 20 years ago got a case of Green Duster wads that would cause bloopers (bad batch of plastic) it isn't always machine, operator or bad data. Dave Erickson helped me recover the wads on the skeet field they had fractured and split. And it was only down to the twenties but at least it was above and not below zero.

When Kevin at Downrange was first starting out I had some issues with bloopers and the pink 12 ga. wad and 7/8 oz. loads. In the winter of course. That was using Promo, DR 12 ga. 7/8 oz. wad, and F616 primers. He was able to reproduce it in his pressure gun

It was a combination of the Promo powder and the F616 primer in the cold. Fiocchi has since changed the F616 primers. Until I used up what I had he had me crimp deeper to increase pressure and prevent bloopers.

There can be a lot of variables with reloading, in addition to environmental variables. Which is why I like to keep everything the same once I find something that works.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

casebro,

You are misreading the DR-16. It will not allow powder migration in any hull with any powder. The DR-16 like the Gualandi and B&P wads are used in commercial applications in Cheddite hulls. Perfectly tight fitting wads are not a must to stop powder migration.

As I stated a few granules of powder does not mean you have powder migration. When you start getting more that 0.5 grain of powder going past the obturating cup after you start handling the ammo, that is when you have a migration problem.

For the most part the Remington SP16 wad is the one you have to be most concerned with, and even with that wad there are solutions to the powder migration problem.

You are telling the folks that have been reloading the wads mentioned for years what the powder migration problems are.......you aren't exactly breaking new ground.

Powder migration does not start during the reloading process, it starts once you start handing the finished shell.

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Posts: 523 Location: Texas

Just my two cents: been reloading for many years, never had an issue with powder migration or bloopers. Static electricity is a real thing and dryer sheets work, you don't have to believe it. What works for some may or may not work for others. I've been following your post casebro and not sure what your end goal is. If you have an issue with migration refer back to MSM2019's post. Even at that there are so many powders, wads and hulls out there move to something else. If your dead set on that load, you have been given lots of good advice from people that have reloaded a long time, don't think most on here would give bad advice.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

casebro,

I never said anything about dryer sheets. I do not address static electricity in any manner and I do get a certain amount of static during the winter while reloading.

....and no migration doesn't start during reloading. You can reload, pressure/velocity test and get good numbers using loads that will exhibit powder migration after you start handling them.

The other way that powder granules get above the obturating cup while reloading is inserting a wad quickly, this can/may push a few granules out of the powder charge and past the obturating cup.

The only 16 gauge loads that have a real tendency for power migration are loads using the Remington SP16 in Federal, Cheddite, Fiocchi, RIO or any hull with similar inside diameters. Or the Claybuster wads using fine grain or ball powders. There aren't many fine grain powders left, unless you still have some PB, SR4756, or SR7625. Ball powders are pretty much gone also except for WSF. Longshot is a flattened ball powder, but never had any issues with it except when using the SP16 in one of the above mentioned hulls.

There are ways around powder migration with all three of those wads.

Seeing a few granules of powder above the obturating cup right after the reloading process doesn't really mean much.