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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:36 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern California

For 16 gauge fans, we've seen a lot of positive developments in recent years -- the introduction of new 16 gauge guns and models -- side by sides, O/Us, and an autoloader. There are more 16 gauge ammo offerings all the time and it's becoming easier to find 16 gauge ammo as the gauge enjoys a mild resurgence.

However, I think the absolute void of any light, nontoxic 16 gauge ammo offerings is one of the major barriers blocking even wider acceptance. You cannot use a 16 gauge for dove hunting or quail hunting anywhere nontoxic ammos is required -- because there is no such commercially available ammo.

In the State of California where I live, you have to use nontoxic ammunition for every kind of hunting. Dove hunting is super popular here and Southern California, especially, offers some of the best dove hunting in the nation. Yet we cannot use our 16 gauges for doves, quail or any other small game bird or animal because there is no light, commercially available nontoxic 16 gauge ammo available.

Interesting that there are quite a few 16 gauge, nontoxic offerings for waterfowl and pheasants but nothing for smaller game. This needs to be addressed.


Last edited by Sporting Days on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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df
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:40 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota

Personally, I doubt that the non availability of non toxics for dove/quail is an issue of significance. Two reasons, lots of people even 16 ga shooters like us, Will used 20 or 28 gauges for small birds. Secondly, there are huge areas of the country where lead is fine for dove and quail shooting. I’ve hunted both dove and quail in multiple states, and always shot lead, legally.
The 16 is squeezed between the 12 and 20 gauges, that’s the reason for its modest popularity.[/u]
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:04 am  Reply with quote
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You make some valid points, nf. Perhaps I am overstating the absence of light, nontoxic offerings. It is interesting to note, however, that there are such nontoxic commercial offerings readily available for both the .410 and the 28 gauge -- which may speak to their general popularity over the 16.

Still, seems to me there is an opportunity here for ammo makers. I mean even Browning has gotten back into the 16 gauge ammo game when it rolled out the new Sweet 16. Why not add a line of steel 6s or 7s to complement its other 16 nontoxic offerings?

I love that Federal rolled out new 16 and 28 gauge Prairie Storm offerings -- with a national advertising campaign around those loads to boot. But where are the Prairie Storm Steel offerings in those gauges? You've got to use nontoxic ammo when hunting some state and federal land even in places like the Dakotas and elsewhere.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:20 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Amarillo, Texas

01 Sept 20 08 doves, Tristar Brittany 410 3” #6 Herter’s Rained out
02 Sept 20 15 doves, Remington 3200 16 gauge, Herter’s ammo sticks in chamber
03 Sept 20 15 doves, Browning Superpose RKLT 20 IC/Mod
04 Sept 20 15 doves, Browning Superpose RKLT 12 Mod/Full
05 Sept 20 15 doves, Browning Citori 16 gauge Sk & Sk
07 Sept 20 14 doves, Remington 3200 12 ga Mod/Full 40+ Wind
08 Sept 20 NO HUNT 46 degrees, raining and windy
09 Sept 20 NO HUNT Rain
10 Sept 20 NO HUNT 38 degrees and rain
11 Sept 20 15 doves American Arms Brittany 20 gauge


No non-tox used

Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:31 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:46 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern California

Well, Skeettx. I'd say you gave your gun safe a good workout this dove season. Ha!
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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
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sporting: you could always get into reloading. Its the best answer for those that live in a state where the laws are just ridiculous. Here in the state of Texas(don't claim it) the parks and wildlife people wasted 1million dollars on a study that lead was causing damage to water fowl. After a year of testing the final result was: inconclusive. I've done ate a lot of game killed with lead, still here, and as of last check still have no lead poison. I will have to say most of the crazy laws and warnings come out of California. I don't believe much of it, nor support, the gun laws or warnings. Got a buddy that was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, never drank, smoked or ate birds shot with lead. Bottom line when its your time, its your time. And there is only one higher power that pulls your card.
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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
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roto netals is in your state . they've got 1-9 size shot . get some rem cases , some 800X powder at 19 grains , some rem sp wads and load at an ounce of weight . don't look back !! (lyman #5)

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BWW
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Apr 2020
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Location: Boise,Idaho

Boss does a 16 bore 7 shot. Can it not be shipped to Calif? Or you want 7 1/2 or 8?
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4setters
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:37 pm  Reply with quote
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There are at least 4 manufacturers that sell 16 gauge bismuth commercially. Kent, Boss, Backridge and Heavy Bismuth in a variety of sizes. At least two make either # 6s or #7s .

I have dealt with non-toxic loads for quail in 16 gauge for at least a dozen years. When Lyman's 5th came out with "light" load steel shot recipes in 16 gauge, I started loading 7/8 oz loads of #6s and #7s. Shot tons of them at both quail and doves on federal land and am very pleased with the results. I recall a couple of years ago when my brother and I hunted entirely on federal land that day and killed two limits of quail (12) handily with steel #7s.

I also have been using a lot of old Bismuth Cartridge Co. bismuth #6s in my NID the past few years with good success. Got to shoot it on up, so I can move on to newer bismuth loads.

I doubt if you can order ammo by mail in the socialist state of California, but you may be able to get a gun shop to order some shells for you.

I do find it strange that Remington and Federal do not offer a steel #6 or 7 load in 16 gauge, as it would be as simple as reloading the same weight of a smaller shot and printing the appropriate boxes up. However, one reason for small steel shot in the other gauges is that they are all clay target competition gauges and some competition and ranges are steel shot only. Far more shot is directed to clay targets than game.

And I don't use, like some commenters above, 20 or 28 gauge guns, so I have a pretty good idea of the non-toxic options in 16 gauge, and don't have any problems complying with the need for smaller shot.

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Rick O
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:02 pm  Reply with quote
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...Sportfing Ammo has steel 7's. 15/16 oz,their standard 16 ga load.

I bought 10 boxes several years back and have used for dove here since we went un leaded a few seasons ago.."large" load, kills 'em as far as I can shoot.

Problem is that here in CA now, ammo can be shipped direct to FFL Holder Only.
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16'er
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:36 pm  Reply with quote
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Although my heart is always with the 16, I’m not above owning a 12ga game gun in the sub 6.5lbs range. I’m not restricted to nontox here in a for doves or quail, so the sixteens suit me fine.

If against the wall and not reloading, the fair iside 12 bore would be a serious contender for a steel shot sxs. Just my blasphemous opinion.
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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
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Sporting Days wrote:
Well, Skeettx. I'd say you gave your gun safe a good workout this dove season. Ha!


Meh. He's just getting started.

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:43 pm  Reply with quote
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16'er wrote:
Although my heart is always with the 16, I’m not above owning a 12ga game gun in the sub 6.5lbs range. I’m not restricted to nontox here in a for doves or quail, so the sixteens suit me fine.

If against the wall and not reloading, the fair iside 12 bore would be a serious contender for a steel shot sxs. Just my blasphemous opinion.


+1

I had the same blasphemous thought this morning. The double trigger Bobwhite 12 for half the price of the Iside is also a great value, for the same purpose. Of course, one could buy lots of reloading supplies to reload 16 steel for the price of an Iside. But even so....

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:24 pm  Reply with quote



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4Setters,

I use the Bismuth shells in all my L.C. Smith and German Best double guns. No problem at all, except the cost! I do not use that many however killing Wood Ducks every once in a while, have not Dove hunted sense Don Moody passed away.

Pine Creek/Dave
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nj gsp
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 437
Location: WI

Well, to answer the subject of this thread and not necessarily the content, I would say the biggest barrier is lack of inclusion in a competitive class of shooting sports.

With regard to ammo availability, 16 gauge is not that common and generally more expensive. This is simply a function of volume, manufacturing efficiency, and demand.

As others have stated there are several suppliers of non-toxic 16 gauge ammo options, so I’m not sure this is necessarily a barrier.
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