16ga.com ~ View topic - 16 Gauge Reloading Data for Browning or Herter's Hulls?

Joined: 04 Nov 2020 Posts: 6 Location: Kansas

First post here.

I used to reload a bit for 16 gauge, and may do it again since right now 16 gauge ammo is hard to come by.

I don't use my 16 very often, just now and then for upland hunting. It's a nice old Ithaca Model 37.

Anyway, what I used to reload was this:

Remington Sporting hulls
Remington SP16 wads
Winchester 209 primers
1 ounce of shot
~23 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot

But it seems Remington hulls are hard to find these days. I still have 2 - 3 boxes of their Game Load 1 ounce number 6 shot cartridges, which is not a bad shell for early season pheasants.

I have a few boxes of Herter's brand (Cabela's and Bass Pro store brand) 16 gauge shells, and 2 boxes of Browning shells.

In the 12 gauge, these two brands "SEEM" to be nothing more than rebranded Winchester hulls. The 12 gauge Browning shells are AA style, just with a 6-point crimp and the 12 gauge Herter's brand seems to be a Winchester Universal cartridge.

Do any of you know if that is also true for the 16 gauge hulls? If so, which data should I use?

Also, would the Remington SP16 wad work in these hulls?

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

As far as I know, the 16 gauge hulls you are asking about are Cheddite hulls. You can find 1 oz. loads for them here: https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

There are also some reloading sheets on the website, Campfire.

The SP16 wad can work in those hulls but is not a great choice especially for 1 oz. loads. A much better fit is the Gualandi 16/21 also known as SG16 (Ballistics Products)or G/BP 16 (Hodgdon) or TUWG2116 (Precision Reloading).

Joined: 04 Nov 2020 Posts: 6 Location: Kansas

Thanks.

Actually, I'm personal friends with Chris Hodgdon, and I also know Ron Reiber, their Product Manager. So I am aware of Hodgdon's data table site. I shoot a lot of trap and reload for 12 gauge, and use Hodgdon products exclusively. My house is about 8 miles from their main office.

I just thought you 16-gauge guys might have some insights.

So what Ron told me to do was to measure the internal volume of the three cartridge types I have, and if the internal volume is the same, you can use the same data.

So I did.

To make it easy, I cut open one each of the Browning, Herter's, and Remington shells I have, using a shell cutter device. Then I filled each to the top with some powder I have on hand, struck it off with a straight edge, and measured using my RCBS Charge Master scale.

All three were within a half of a grain of each other, weight wise, so that means the volume is, for all intents and purposes, identical.

You are correct though, the SP16 wad doesn't fit as tight in the Browning and the Herter's hulls as it does in the Remington hull. But it's pretty darn close.

Interesting, I think you are correct that the Browning and the Herter's hulls may be Cheddite. The Browning hull had a Gualandi wad in it, and the Herter's hull had a wad I don't recognize, but it looks like the old Versalite wads.

I'll attach photos in another post.

Joined: 04 Nov 2020 Posts: 6 Location: Kansas

Well, maybe I won't post photos after all...

Looks like I can't load jpg images directly from my hard drive.

So internally, the Herter's and the Browning hulls had the same hull wall thickness (as observed, not actually measured) and the base wad looked identical It was even the same orange-ish color.

They appeared to have different primers, and the powder was completely different.

Anyway, I think, based on this (the volume measurement noted above), I am safe to use Remington hull data to reload these Herter's and Browning hulls.

Tim

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 151 Location: SE Ks

For 1 oz loads in Cheddite and the old Herters hulls, I use Hodgdon's Universal with a SG-16 or Z16 wad. Works very well, the z16 gives slightly tighter patterns in my gun if needed.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

timb99,

You asked about a load for a specific set of components. There are a lot of loads for Cheddite hulls using 1 oz. of shot. Just not a lot using Longshot.

You have also asked if the SP-16 wad fits the Cheddite hull and you were told it will allow powder migration. The internal diameter of a Remington hull is .660" the Cheddite internal diameter is almost .680". The O.D. of an SP-16 is .635". There aren't any powders that won't migrate in the Cheddite hull using the SP 16 wad. Some powders will migrate past the SP-16 in a Remington hull. There are ways to help the powder migration but that is another issue.

There are 16 gauge reloading spreadsheets on Campfire that have more Cheddite loads using Longshot. I just don't have the link or I would have posted it for you.

I have 5 or 6, 1 oz. loads for the Cheddite hull and 1 oz. of shot but they are for Unique and Universal.

There is more knowledge and loads here, but you have narrowed down what you want to use, so you have essentially handcuffed yourself.

We all wish that loading for the 16 was like loading for the 12, but there just aren't that many components made for the 16. There are options but there can be work involved.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

Last thought, using Remington SP hull loading data for the Cheddite hull will possibly leave you with a fairly anemic load.

Joined: 04 Nov 2020 Posts: 6 Location: Kansas

I have some Universal Clays that I use for my 20 gauge target loads. Maybe I will give that a try.

I'm curious why you say "anemic." Are you thinking there will be poor sealing of the over-powder cup with the Remington wad, or are you talking about internal volume.

I would agree in 12 gauge where Remington hulls are tapered and Cheddite hulls are straight walled and the volume difference is significant, but these measured out virtually identical in volume. And in fact these Remington hulls appear to be straight walled hulls with a green plastic base wad. Just slightly thicker hull wall.

I wish I could post the photos.

I hear what you are saying about the diameter of the over-powder cup. Powder migration might be an issue.

I might give the Gualandi wads a try.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

You are going to like Universal for 1 oz. loads in the Cheddite hulls, especially if you get some Gualandi wads. Be sure to get the longer version as there are two 16 ga. Gualandi wads that look almost identical. But there is a definite difference in the wad column height in the final outcome.

Precision Reloading # TUWG2116
Ballistic Products #072SG16

The B & P Z2M16 wad is also a good wad for this application.

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The Remington SP hull is not tapered and definitely does not have the same volume as a Cheddite. The Rem hull has a smaller I.D. and the basewad is taller both of which tend to raise chamber pressures. In actual application using Longshot there will probably be a 2.0 - 3.0 grain difference between the Remington hull and the Cheddite hull to achieve the same velocity level. The Cheddite requiring more powder if the rest of the components used are the same.

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I can promise you there will be powder migration unless you go right from the loading bench to the chamber with the finished cartridges which isn't practical for hunting loads, especially if they are in and out and shucked a few times in a repeater. The only 2 powders that might not migrate with the Cheddite/SP-16 wad combo are 800-X and Steel. You can't use Steel powder for this application and I have had 800-X migrate.

I shoot an autoloader for most of my hunting......powder migration sucks.

Joined: 04 Nov 2020 Posts: 6 Location: Kansas

Thanks Mark,

I appreciate your insights.

Tim

Joined: 04 Nov 2020 Posts: 6 Location: Kansas

Incidentally, the Gualandi wad you recommended is the exact same wad as what was in the Browning 1-1/8 ounce cartridges.