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Chicago
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:26 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern Illinois

Uncle Dan,
It’s not really a regional variation. My dogs come from October Setters in Island Park, ID, but there are 15 or 20 well known Ryman type breeders that span the country. Most of them have that straight out to 45 tail.

Somewhere in the development of both the Ryman and Hemlock lines (1900 - 1955) the sort of straight out tail was bred into the line. Considering the English Setter was only introduced to the United States in the 1870’s, Ryman was pretty early on in the breeds development. Most of the old classic paintings by Osthaus show the setters with straight out tails, although a few had tails at a 45 and I know one even showed the sort of sickle straight up tail my Drummer had. In that regard I guess the straight tail is not a surprise.

I don’t know much about trial type setters or the Llewellin line but I believe the southern trial type dogs were penalized if they did not have a straight up tail. I read somewhere they liked that to find the dogs on point at the great ranges they asked them to run in the southern quail country.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:26 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
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Location: The Great Northwet

Chicago wrote:
Uncle Dan,
It’s not really a regional variation. My dogs come from October Setters in Island Park, ID, but there are 15 or 20 well known Ryman type breeders that span the country. Most of them have that straight out to 45 tail.

Somewhere in the development of both the Ryman and Hemlock lines (1900 - 1955) the sort of straight out tail was bred into the line. Considering the English Setter was only introduced to the United States in the 1870’s, Ryman was pretty early on in the breeds development. Most of the old classic paintings by Osthaus show the setters with straight out tails, although a few had tails at a 45 and I know one even showed the sort of sickle straight up tail my Drummer had. In that regard I guess the straight tail is not a surprise.

I don’t know much about trial type setters or the Llewellin line but I believe the southern trial type dogs were penalized if they did not have a straight up tail. I read somewhere they liked that to find the dogs on point at the great ranges they asked them to run in the southern quail country.

Good Hunting,
Mike


Thanks for the info Mike. Cedar looks exactly like a setter on a Lefever side plate. Beautiful dog.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Chicago,

Mike all great information, I will add this. The LeFever Setter Engraving on the LeFever guns was done by the same men who engraved the L.C. Smith guns, Kraus their top engraver even engraved the likeness of his own Ryman Setter dogs on his #5 gun. I own that #5 gun at the present time. Ryman never bred for a straight up tail, he bred for short straight across the back or the sickle straight/half moon you have noted that appear on our Ryman dogs today. Although Ryman's original generics has been watered down thru the years, much of the Ryman genetics still remains even today.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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