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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Very light 870 in 16 |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:42 pm
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Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1381
Location: Denver, Colorado
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New gunshop in Conifer these days (talk about difficult timing!). Drove up there to meet a friend for lunch who helped set it up and now works there part-time. Mountain Guns is finally mostly open and with an exceptional assortment of firearms on display. Something you don't see out here very much anymore are nicer pump-guns from the 50s and 60s and they have several very good examples in 16, including a Model 97, and a Model 37. One that really impressed me, however, was a very early Remington Model 870. Didn't get the date code from it, but it had a Model 31-type of pump handle on it, so...1953-54 maybe? First one of these I've ever held. Shockingly petite and light but with the classic 870 dimensions, I can't imagine it weighing much more than 6lbs. Looked to be in absolutely original and very un-molested condition. Did not see the price tag and...because this place seems to be aimed at the more well-heeled crowd it won't likely be inexpensive. |
_________________ 'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust...... |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:40 pm
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Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 280
Location: Northwest PA
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I have a 16 ga wingmaster from March, 1954. It weighs in at 6.5 lbs. I'd love to have one that came in at 6 lb mark. |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:48 pm
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota
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We’re these older 870s built on a 16ga frame? |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:48 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Yes,
and so were the 12 gauge guns for both the 1100 and the 870
Mike |
_________________
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USAF RET 1971-95 |
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Posted:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:10 pm
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Member
Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 495
Location: Kenosha, WI
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The biggest differences in these old guns and the newer ones are in the barrels. The old ones are much thinner and that's where the weight is. |
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Posted:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:21 pm
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Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1381
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Don't know about the 16 gauge frames. There were 12s and 20s and that was all, from what I understand. The earlier guns didn't have choke tubes or vent ribs, which makes for comparatively lighter barrels. The very early guns also seemed (at least to me) to have marginally smaller and lighter receivers as well. Like I said, I didn't get to weigh it but... it was a bit of a shock to pick up. Not as light as a comparable M31L (~5 1/2lbs) but not much, if any, more than 6lbs. |
_________________ 'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust...... |
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Posted:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:09 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2020
Posts: 15
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Posted:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:18 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2067
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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my FFL guy found me one a while back , 1st edition - nice price for a near new gun . I believe the weight diff is in the finish . All the metal is nicely finished and svelte . The stock is quite plain , but HEAVY !! It now wears a similar stock from that era , but is hollowed out and a little shorter - NICE !! Kinda neat , a 65yr old new gun ! |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:55 pm
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Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1381
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Hamish: Interesting article, thankyou for it. I did see that it clearly states that all 16s are built on 12 gauge frames. |
_________________ 'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust...... |
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Posted:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:13 am
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Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 827
Location: N. Shore, mn
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and a couple other remmies
Not sure the dates of the codes on these but here are some pix:
[url=https://postimages.org/]
[/url]
Top gun is a rem. model 31 16 ga
middle is a 16 ga 870
bottom a rem M17 20 ga
date code pic for the M31:
[url=https://postimages.org/]
[/url]
date code for the 870:
[url=https://postimages.org/]
[/url]
date code for M17
[url=https://postimages.org/]
[/url]
For some reason the phone would not display any picture of the M17 horizontal??? |
_________________ I STAND WITH THE NRA! |
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Posted:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:04 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1310
Location: Western WA
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Way back in the day my father offered me a choice: A slim svelte 16ga 870 that fit me like a glove, or a huge 12 ga Model 12, polychoke and all. This teenager went with the Model 12 of course.
That 870 is still out there somewhere, patiently waiting for me.
Cheers
B. |
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Posted:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:42 am
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Joined: 14 Sep 2016
Posts: 68
Location: KC,MO
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Lloyd3 wrote: |
Hamish: Interesting article, thankyou for it. I did see that it clearly states that all 16s are built on 12 gauge frames.
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Nope. All 12s are built on 16 ga frames. |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 am
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Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1381
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Well, initially that may have been true, but time has altered the 870 rather dramatically. Only the very early guns have any claim on being "svelte". The later guns are big and heavy, with absolutely no weight advantage for being a 16-gauge variant. Pre Magnum and no choke-tube Wingmaster versions will be a little lighter, but nothing much under 7 lbs. My 80s 870 Express 12 bore weighs 8 1/2 lbs. |
_________________ 'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust...... |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:29 pm
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Joined: 14 Sep 2016
Posts: 68
Location: KC,MO
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Be that as it may, I don’t think the frame size or dimensions every changed for 12 ga 870s. In almost every iteration I know of they are considerably lighter that other steel receivered pumps, which I always attributed in part to their smaller receivers, though obviously there are many variables involved. I’m pretty sure express guns of most vintages lack the “light contour” barrel Wingmasters come with. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:32 am
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 444
Location: WI
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S.davis wrote: |
Lloyd3 wrote: |
Hamish: Interesting article, thankyou for it. I did see that it clearly states that all 16s are built on 12 gauge frames.
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Nope. All 12s are built on 16 ga frames.
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The article is a little confusing, as it says the 16 gauge receiver from the 11-48 was used on the 870 to lower costs through use of commonality of parts, but then later on in the "guns to avoid" section it says all 16 gauge 870's are built on 12 gauge frames.
Which says to me if the design of the 870 12 gauge was based on the 16 gauge 11-48 receiver, then the 12 gauge receiver of the 870 is a 16 gauge receiver, and saying all 16 gauges are built on a 12 gauge frame would mean all 12 and 16 gauges are built on the 16 gauge receiver.
OK, right... |
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