16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  POI Adjustment
Brewster11
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Conducted some careful POA/POI testing with the AYA yesterday and determined that the RH IC barrel POI is about an inch and a half left at 16 yds. LH Mod barrel is pretty much spot on, maybe a fraction left. Is that considered enough to warrant bending the stock?

TIA
B
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:01 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

No. the target is moving, you rarely get a perfect mount, and often
the head is up if you get excited about these things.

Shoot a round of skeet or crazy or hand trap and see if you can hit with it.

Mike

_________________
,
USAF RET 1971-95
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
top_cat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:11 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 160
Location: central oregon

Inch and a half at 16 is 3 inches at 32 and 4 1/2 at 48. If you think you can hold your point of aim that closely on a flying or flushing bird, then go ahead. Personally I think you shoot open chokes to relieve yourself of the tendency to aim rather than point in the general direction. Any bending is going to move BOTH pattern centers.

Trap shooters worry about 4 inches at 40 yards. But they have a much smaller target to shoot at.

That's my opinion - often in error, but never in doubt.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Brewster11,

It maybe your gun mount and not the AYA barrels that are giving you your variance.
Shoot some live birds and see how the gun does for you in the field or forest before you do any stock bending. If you do have the stock bent, us a pro to accomplish the needed work.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

Brewster11
Stop all the guessing and have the gun fit to you. There may be other issues besides the cast. It is well worth the money spent. If your gun is shooting left/ right or high and low from my experience it isn’t something you can consistently compensate for. Now if that’s the only gun you shoot then you can train yourself to do it. If you shoot several different on a regular basis, it’s a waste of time and you will get frustrated before you learn to compensate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tramroad28
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Brewster11 wrote:
Conducted some careful POA/POI testing with the AYA yesterday and determined that the RH IC barrel POI is about an inch and a half left at 16 yds. LH Mod barrel is pretty much spot on, maybe a fraction left. Is that considered enough to warrant bending the stock?

TIA
B


No, that decision arrives best from Time, more than measurements.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

If it’s correctly patterned it requires 15 min. That’s not gonna change in 100 years if it don’t fit you correctly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tramroad28
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

IF....may not float all boats. Very Happy

I was fit by Bilinski in TC.....I remember the experience as a positive one and the man as both conscientious and knowledgable.
I believe it was positive due to my work on a consistent mount, thereby helping Bilinski, and shot two so-fitted guns(at birds) for a couple seasons.
They worked swell, when all the other reasons to hit and miss co-operated. Idea

Eventually tho, I realized that the reckoned 16"+ lop, etc. that worked so well was neither a detriment in the field or at all required to swat dem birds.
Quite happy now with a scattergun having the standard factory lop or, perhaps, with the addition of a pad adding 3/4" or so...depending upon a slick butt plate or clothing variances.

I hate to see anyone choosing sawdust over Time getting acquainted with a gun...immediately.
Beyond that, I would recommend many, if not all, folks to try a fitting experience....for that experience and not for the message board kool-aid.
The procedure may well work a treat.
Add clays tho and..Fit Away....that's a different cracker.

Finding a fitting to be rated as Job #1 with a birdgun?...nah, give some time to developing a buddy.
We shoot best what we like....same type thought follows for a birddog, it is never about purchasing a way ahead, hopefully.
imho, of course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

Agree not all guns are the same. From my experience most of my semi’s and o/u fit just fine, and if your an average person, right hand shooter with right eye dominate shooting a single barrel or o/u you will be fine. And agree that gun mount is the key, however, if your gun mount isn’t consistent then problems start to creep in. Now on a sxs it’s a different animal. I leaned this cause I have a sxs hammer gun that I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with. Pattern board showed( off bench) 6 inches to the left on right barrel and about 1 inch on left barrel. Went to professional gun fitter and after 15 min of him adding foam, and black tape I was dead on the pattern board. Had I not seen it with my own eyes and the results I wouldn’t have believed it. I’m a believer now, so if you normally have a good mount and no problems with other guns, then it’s worth the money to have it fit. If they are good, looking at you mounted, down the barrel they will know instantly. Not all left and right issues is related to bending a stock. In my case it was a LOP adjustment and a higher comb.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tramroad28
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Yes....gun matters, as do the particulars of the individual.

The fella getting fit ahead of me, very tall and very thin, apparently proved difficult as my appointment was re-set and I had to stay overnight in TC.
No doubt the same can happen with a scattergun itself, if it is way off in regulation or whatever.
The service can therefore be a valuable one...just not, imo, at all required out of the box or, to enable a grin.

I was fit for an AyA SxS...that was back in the day when they were the bee's knickers.
The one I ordered missed requirements and, to this day, I regret not getting an AyA.

Not sure on being average, nearing 6'4" and as bulky as a sack of spuds....I long for average at times.
I think that, honestly, there are shots where a particular set of dimensions would indeed help me....at other times not so much.
Nearing 70, I find that as long as I am not wounding birds left and right and still maintain a smile on my dog's faces then....I can grab any scattergun and feel deadly enough for guvmint work.

But, Bilinski had no tape or foam...he used a trygun.
Working on a customer's gun, I reckon t&f have a place.

Always wondered...what the heck is the appeal of a broad side of a barn?
Darn things seem deucedly tough to bag yet folks are continually shooting at them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

Tramroad28
You gave me a good laugh with the barn comment. Thank you. I can remember at the pattern board saying wtf many times. Never had one fit before, it’s still in the works, but a shotgun that I can’t shoot is useless to me. It’s old and not worth the money, but it was my grandfathers. Prob another one of those rabbit hole deals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

Tramroad28
You gave me a good laugh with the barn comment. Thank you. I can remember at the pattern board saying wtf many times. Never had one fit before, it’s still in the works, but a shotgun that I can’t shoot is useless to me. It’s old and not worth the money, but it was my grandfathers. Prob another one of those rabbit hole deals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:29 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Note that Brewster11 said
Quote:
"careful POA/POI testing"
That means he carefully aimed and then observed point of impact. If so, and because the specificity of his comment convinces me Brewster11 knew what he was doing, the POA-to-POI difference is in the gun, and has nothing to do with the mount or the shooter's trigger technique, or reaction to the shot. So all the comments directing Brewster11 to develop his shooting technique are irrelevant.

Yes, a mount and shoot exercise at the pattern plate would be interesting, as would a good trip around the sporting clays course or skeet field with targets approximating the range extremes the shooter expects to encounter in the field. If the POI error difference between the barrels is confirmed well enough to mess with the shooter's performance, I would suggest a "split the difference" gun fit adjustment. An inch and a half when split would be pretty small in the scheme of things.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chicago
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:48 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1376
Location: Northern Illinois

Brewster,
If you hadn’t done a POA I would expect a barrel regulation issue. Personally I would not worry about 1.5” at 16 yards. A bend to split the difference between the r/l barrels is a good thought, but trying to bend the stock to 3/64” is problematical. Stock bending is just not that precise, they have to bend it past the point of measurement to allow for it bouncing back and some do and some don’t.

Leave it be and let the pup find any bird you happen to not kill dead in the sky with that right barrel. That barrel is good to about 30 yards and I don’t think 3” is going to make a darn bit of difference in how many birds you put in your game bag.

Did you use the same ammo for all of your shots?

Good Hunting,
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
double vision
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:47 pm  Reply with quote
Guest





Brewster, here's my 16 gauge AyA #2 story. I found I was struggling mightily with mine, especially the left barrel. Three things were at work. A too tight left-barrel choke (and the right was plenty tight), a somewhat heavy rear trigger, and after some patterning I determined the left barrel was printing just a tad low.

I was determined to get things right with the gun because it's my dream gun, and it's also rare bird with its 30" barrels, actually 30 1/8" (but only a shotgun nut measures that close)..., and all this subsequently got in my head. I found myself shooting "not to miss" and way too barrel-aware which of course is one of the deadly sins.

I sent the gun to Jim Eyster of Heritage Gunsmiths in Ohio to take care of all three issues. His father made a stellar reputation tuning barrels, and from what I've gathered Jim is at least as good. It cost some money, but nothing comes cheap with first rate work, and I deemed the gun worth it. Jim verified the left barrel was just a bit low, not as much as I thought, and thankfully correctable.

Jim got the the barrels shooting together which ate some choke in the already too tight left barrel, and being my grouse gun I had him open both chokes going from 9 & 27 points, to a more favorable 3 & 18. I still like a tightish left barrel, and the gun will see some early season pheasant work. Triggers were tuned to 3.5 & 4 pounds. Best thing is I now know things are right with the gun.

I didn't get after this until late August and Jim's work is in high demand with the sporting clays shooters, so I didn't get the gun back until just prior to leaving for South Dakota the first week of November. I took a couple WI state-released pheasants with it the last week of October, but finished the season with my Rizinni Iside. Once I get past the South Dakota trip it's all wild Minnesota and Iowa pheasants, nothing easy, and not the time to be getting reacquainted with a shotgun, especially after things have gotten mental. So I set it aside and I'll be spending plenty of time with it on the skeet and softer sporting clay ranges come spring.

So anyway, that's what I did.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 3
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. General Discussion

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09