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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Reloading/ sizing striaght hulls? Heat them first?
casebro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

Remington green Gun Clubs reload many times in my 12 ga, in spite of the steel rims. The reloadability in comparison to Cheds and Fiocchis must be because of the "base wad" material . Steel rims are definitely reloadable multiple times, even Rem Clay and Sport have steel rims.

I have compared the hull walls of Polyformed and Compression Formed hull with heat- a soldering iron softens the CF, the PF melts to water. I suspect the same holds true for the 'base wad' sections. I'm suspecting that the cheap hulls have a soft plastic that deforms more under the heat and pressure of a normo-pressure load.

Under normal sizing, the wads maintains pressure against the inside pf the metal. It's already pre-loaded. Next shot can then expand it farther more easily, and so hulls stick in chambers.

I'm suspecting that heating the base wads would allow the plastic to deform more easily, back to it's original size when re-sized. Or even smaller if you crank the Super sizer to max squish.

a) Probably hot tap water temp? 140f?

b) Are fiber base wads more reloadable re failure to extract?

Good thing I didn't empty the trash, I think I'll try some old hulls. Size some cold, mic, size some hot, mic.

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casebro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

Okay, first attempt: Dug out a dozen Suoer X hulls. I only shot a half-box, it had 3 stick so bad I need to pound on the dowel to drive them out. (Stevens 315 SxS, but same prob on A-5)

Avg brass diameter, .740- 745. Resized 6 cold, pretty much .738. Soaked the other 6 in hot tap water, changed it a couple times, brought the bowl of them in water to the press. Resized, .736.

Next step, see if they melt in boiling water, or if that is good.

Woo-HOO! Boiling water poured over them, heat soak a couple minutes, fish them out and size them while hot. I could feel that it took only a fraction as much pressure on the sizer handle. .728" !!!
A couple Cheddites in the batch were .725, they must use softer plastic?

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I guess I am missing the point.

Minimum cartridge for a 16 gauge is 0.735". You can easily resize on any Sizemaster or 9000 to 0.737" - 0.739".

Minimum chamber is 0.745".

I shoot repeaters with no problems.

Why expose a hull to water to resize them much smaller than they should be?

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casebro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

MSM2019 wrote:
I guess I am missing the point.

Minimum cartridge for a 16 gauge is 0.735". You can easily resize on any Sizemaster or 9000 to 0.737" - 0.739".

Minimum chamber is 0.745".

I shoot repeaters with no problems.

Why expose a hull to water to resize them much smaller than they should be?


Sure, I can reload several times with 7/8 loads. IIRC, 11 times with some Cheddites a few years ago. But 1 oz 1220 loads will stick at the second loading. As so many here have found. They say you can only load once or twice because of it. And they blame the steel bases. I've proven it's not the steel, it's the plastic used in the base wad.

This thread is here for all posterity, others may report back on their experiences.

And exposing hulls to water? Sounds like a fiberglass boat. Smile

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
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Never had that problem.

Maybe it has nothing to do with 1 oz. loads?

But then again, I have never had the issue with 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz. loads either.

Good luck!

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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

I shoot a lot of cheddite reloads also. Never had any issues with 16,12 28 or 410. I resize most of them on a 600. I had a slight issue with some 410 being a little snug going in the chamber, never nothing the ejector wouldn’t eject, it was fixed with a super sizer and those were AA HS hulls.
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:16 pm  Reply with quote
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Dirty or deformed chamber.
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Barnyard Drake
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jan 2019
Posts: 48
Location: Indiana

Preserve hunting Saturday.

New BPI Fiocchi hulls, 1 oz. loads of sixes, SG16 wads. Fired fine.

Stuck like the devil! No indicators on the spent hull as to why.

I ended up using some Golden Pheasant loads which I took "just in case".

They cycled perfectly.

Ithaca 37 feather.
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

OP raises a good point. I see some FTEs with certain hull types after reloading, but the more serious issue is FTFs in the A5 after a few reloads which I traced to hull stretching. The reloads became too fat in the plastic section. Some types were worse than others, Herters being the worst culprit mainly because they reloaded so many times. Their soft plastic might be the reason for both. The problem was resolved by running the loaded shells through the supersizer UPSIDE DOWN. Alternatively, I could discard the hulls after a couple reloads but that would be too simple and easy.

B.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Hulls are made to expand contract and then eject with no effort and I have never had a shotgun new or old that had any problem with any hull.

I have no absolute reason for what might be happening but blaming the hull isn't going in the right direction.

There has to be an issue with the firearm, whether there is an ejector/extractor problem or a chamber problem it is a firearm related problem.

Trying to somehow 'fix' the hull is just covering things up and the problem is likely to continue.

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:21 am  Reply with quote
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MSM2019 wrote:
Hulls are made to expand contract and then eject with no effort and I have never had a shotgun new or old that had any problem with any hull.

I have no absolute reason for what might be happening but blaming the hull isn't going in the right direction.

There has to be an issue with the firearm, whether there is an ejector/extractor problem or a chamber problem it is a firearm related problem.

Trying to somehow 'fix' the hull is just covering things up and the problem is likely to continue.


I agree , It's got to be something in the gun whether it's a dirty chamber or one that was cut undersize to begin with.

With mec collet sizers I have never had a problem resizing any hull to work in all my guns.
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casebro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

It does not matter that some of you have never had this problem. Or that some of you think that all 5 of my 16 ga chambers are FUBAR from the factory. Or that they can be so dirty that hulls glue themselves to the dirt. Others have stated that they DO have sticky problems. And one guy PM'd that we can't even discuss it here.

I didn't come here to argue with the resident contrarians. I came here to share some knowledge gained through scientific experiment in the hopes of helping others that DO have the problem.

Now back to the discussion at hand. I mentioned it is not a problem with light loads. Some of you said you have no problem with your 1oz loads, and listed components. But no indication of powder, amount, or fps. I suspect that 1oz 1100 fps would alleviate the sticking. I know that my 7/8 loads make my A5 function as a straight-pull bolt action.- that is cool because then I know the springs are soaking up the maximum amount of recoil. But NFG for shooting doubles.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
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Location: Central ND

casebro,

I got you.

ALL of my loads, from 3/4 oz. to 1 1/4 oz. are well over 1200 FPS, some are over 1400 FPS, none are below 1250 FPS. Except for the 3/4 oz. load, all have a chamber pressure over 9,000 PSI some close to 11,000 PSI.

I have an 1100, 870, Model 37, Model 12, Citori and a Hunter Arms, Hunter Special. Never, not even once have I ever had a hull stick in the chamber and I resize to .737" to .739".

I use Remington, Winchester (Cheddite), Cheddite, Federal, RIO, Fiocchi and a few others mostly of the Cheddite style. All have at least 2 reloads on them and many, Cheddites and some Winchesters have 5 and more reloads on them.

I really don't have an answer for you but, IF you are reloading and resizing these hulls properly there is something else wrong. I don't pretend to know if you say your shotguns aren't the problem.

It seems you started this thread defensive. Don't be. But you have to understand that what your doing is very odd, and probably isn't the way to go.

You might not want to hear that but.......do you want us to lie to you?

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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

Casebro
Only one time have I ever had a problem with hulls sticking. Don't remember what brand it was but they were factory loads with steel rims. New fired great but first time reloading they would not chamber in any of my 16's. I mic the hulls and in certain area they were at maximum on the high side. Not oversize but right at max. So I adjust my super-sized to .002 lower on the sizing. Never had a problem since. I looked no farther for the problem.
I shoot much, much trap and never had the problem recur.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Casebro,

Let's go through a few things....if you have already done it/know it my applogies.

Where are you measuring the hulls? You should be as close to the radius at the rim as you can get without measuring into the .020" radius. Measuring the metal head where it meets the plastic/paper tube is misleading.

Do the chambers of your shotguns shine? They should. If not a piece of Scotch Brite wrapped around a short rod sliced on end to hold the Scotch Brite and chucked in a drill motor does the job. I use a jag and a short cleaning rod with the Scotch Brite. Use a little WD40 or other light lubricant. That will get it polished. If the chambers are pitted and rough.....time to take the gun to a good gunsmith.

The shotguns that you are having issues with, have you measured the chambers with a dial bore gauge for size and to be sure that no one has honed a belly in the chamber(s). The chambers should taper from a minimum of .745" at the very edge of near the rim relief cut to .732" just before the forcing cone. Both of those diameters can be +.005" from the figures I gave you. The taper should be very uniform with no bellies in it. The chamber MUST taper if it does not, you found your problem.

These are just a few things to check.

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