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double vision
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:45 am  Reply with quote
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That's a very nice 12 and one I would enjoy owning.

For a "one gun guy" a case could be made for opening the right barrel to SK or loose IC and taking on the world. Of course who among us is a one gun guy?

I'd also keep the 1 1/4 oz loads as few as possible if at all. I sold which appeared to be a rock-solid 12 gauge Sterlingworth to a friend. It was a 1930's Savage gun with 2 3/4" chambers, but it had some pleasing "Philly" characteristics; weighed about a pound more than your lovely Cashmore.. He shot a few 1 1/4 oz loads at pheasants and the stock cracked badly. I'd hate to see that beautiful Cashmore suffer the same fate. With those tight chokes you could certainly do quite well with less. Nice gun.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:25 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Brewster, Gil pretty much touched on the points, but I will elaborate. Modern autos have gotten out of reason in terms of price. There is little justification for it, they don't cost but a few dollars more to make than an inexpensive pump. Machines make the parts for both, the auto may have only 1 or 2 more parts, and "handwork" is limited to pushing in a few pins, tightening a cap and 3 screws (2 of which hold the recoil pad). Makes no sense.

A good double, 100 years old or current manufacture, requires skilled handwork, even with today's CNC machinery. You can see the quality of handwork in a good gun, high grade or field grade, and know your money paid for someone's time, skill, and labor.

In the case of this gun (and others) there is the matter of art as well. Beauty is subjective, but you don't see something like this with a basketball hide grip over injection molded plastic...on a gun that costs nearly $3000 complete with an ammunition sponsor name plastered on it. This one only cost about what the mid range Vinci retails for.

So the point is, contrary to what many believe, as I once did, if you have the budget for one of today's high dollar wonder autos (that really do work better than the autos of old) you can afford an extremely nice hand crafted double gun if such a thing appeals to you.

Which should perspective gun buyers do? That's not my question to answer, but this gives folks another choice to ponder since British doubles are at all time bargain prices today (especially 2 1/2" 12 ga. guns) and the British market has long been comprised largely of ornate guns with very good handling characteristics and a variety of stock dimensions.

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wj jeffery 16
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:02 pm  Reply with quote
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Wyo well done on your new gun , you are in good company as far as Cashmore owners go , Annie Oakleys Cashmore is in the Cody museum in Wyoming so at least two Cashmores in Wyoming. Look forward to your adventures with the Cashmore.
Hope your keeping well WJ.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

WJ,

You are absolutely correct, I had forgotten about Annies Cashmore gun, the lady knew guns that is for sure!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:42 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1972
Location: Maine

What WyoChukar said immediately upthread.

A couple years ago a gunsmith friend and I went in on a then-recently-imported English gun that needed a little work. We looked at it as a fun project and one we could turn around for a decent profit. 12 bore, 2 1/2 inch chambers, good sound 28 inch barrels, Light Cylinder and Full, 1924 Brummie boxlock - what's not to like.

We did the work - draw the tiny bit of oil out of the stock, ultrasound the action to get the gunk out, strip the stock and raise the use marks. The last inch of the original wooden butt was stained a bit so it came off and we replaced it with ebony, hogged out inside to adjust the balance about 1/16 downstream of the hinge pin. Turned out the checkering did not need freshening up - it was just gunked up from years of hand grease, stock wax and such. A hand-rubbed London oil finish on the stock made it look like a million bucks. The butt my friend hand-checkered in a Holland pattern.

After it didn't sell for a while I got to feeling guilty about getting him into this, asked him what he felt was a fair price to buy him out. He gave me a number and I paid him that. All told it was a good bit less than a couple knuckleheads bid for a tarted-up Mossberg 500 riot gun on Gunbroker a couple weeks back.

I got one heck of a good gun. It stops pheasants, cold. It carries well and shoots accurately. When friends put it to their shoulder more often then not one hears them go "Ooh" or "Yeaaah". (I make similar noises too.) I got a fine English game gun that will last (given proper care) at least another hundred hunting seasons. It's a piece of fine workmanship made by the hands of men who learned and practiced their trade at a high level, art I can enjoy, pay respect to and express gratitude for every time I take it out.

You may recall a few weeks ago there are a couple vintage-early 70s 16ga Remingtons on Gunbroker, both new and unfired, and bid into the thousands. You may also recall I suggested Remington ought to buy them and put them on display at Ilion, where their workers could see them every day as a reminder of what they used to be able to produce (for everyman), and what they should aspire to produce today.

So, I'll go with one of these pieces of handiwork every time over the latest, greatest, new jam-o-matic. Every time.

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Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:47 pm  Reply with quote
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WyoChukar,
Nice find and a lovely gun and I look forward to a photo tour of the first snowcock you drop with it.

That 1 1/4 oz is a really heavy proof for a 6 lb gun and I would think the recoil would be a bone jarring event. As you already noted it could be extremely tough on the wood. FWIW I feed my 6 lb English 16 bore guns that are proofed for 1 oz loads both 7/8 oz and 1 oz RST’s. The 1 oz load will crush a pheasant at 40 yards.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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Gil S
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:15 am  Reply with quote
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Here are some sub-6000 psi loads for both 7/8 and 1 oz. loads for your gun:

https://www.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ceretto.pdf
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airmedic1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 191
Location: Nebraska (It’s not for everyone)

This is an interesting thread. I’ve stayed away from American doubles but I’m deep in Spanish, French, Belgium and now English doubles.
I recently bought a Lincoln Jeffries BLE 12 bore made between 1896 and 1904. It’s a beautiful lightweight SxS that weighs less (5 lbs, 11oz) than many 28 gauges that I own. It has 2.5” chambers but RST shells are available and the quality is unlike anything you will see on any mass produced firearms today. Will it shoot 3.5” Roman candles at teal, no and I can’t shoot 1 1/4 oz 1500 FPS pheasant loads out of it either but then I don’t won’t to. What I have is a handmade high quality SxS that I can kill any upland game that I hunt and I wonder about the stories it could tell.

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Old English doubles have their merits, much as there are those who believe straight razors give the closest shave and square format film cameras make the best photos. Notwithstanding the tender care and soft loads they need, those old doubles do have one indisputable advantage: they are forever free from the blight of those ugly factory installed barrel-bulging interchangeable choke tubes!
Cheers
B.
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67galaxie
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2017
Posts: 226
Location: Valdosta GA

That is really nice! Where did you score that one from?
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Last edited by Brewster11 on Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

I scored it from an add on Guns International. Van's Firearms in Mississippi had it.

Soft loads? That's part of the appeal of this particular gun, it is proofed for the loads I normally use. I seldom use more than 1 1/4 oz. in a 12 ga. I did try my regular pheasant load and the recoil was not as bad as expected, but I don't lust for 1500 fps either.

1 1/8 oz. will be my primary load, which will do impressive things, largely due to efficiency. A friend learned this last season when he had to give up Nitro Mags on account of vertebrae damage in his neck. I loaded him some 12 ga. 1 1/8 oz. #5's at 1,200 fps and he was surprised at how far they cleanly dropped sage grouse.

Tender care? My guns have to earn their keep. It will see plenty rough country and probably some rough weather too. I intend to give this gun the same care I give the others: use it, then clean and oil accordingly afterward. I guess the only tender care I give my guns is protecting them in a case during travel. I'm sure there are people who will think I'm nuts for taking guns like this for chukar and snowcock. Cheers.

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Location: Western WA

Quote:
I'm sure there are people who will think I'm nuts for taking guns like this for chukar and snowcock.

Yes indeed, however not for what you carry, but where you plan to carry them! Smile

Have you ever considered how long it would take for a load of #5 (or you!) to eventually hit the ground from some of your snowcock shooting points?
B.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Chicago,

Got to agree with you 100%, the RST or Poly 1 oz loads will put pheasants and most any another kind of birds down quite nicely. I do use some 1 1/8 oz #6's under my 2nd trigger for shooting thru heavy grape vines and edges of Hemlock trees, when gunning Grouse. I take more than a few Grouse in this manner every season.

Most of the time however, the 1 1/8 oz loads are not used as often as the 7/8 or 1 oz loads under the 1st trigger. Most of my Grouse are shot between 28 - 38 yards, the same with my Pheasants. The Mearns Quail are usually shot at about 30 - 42 yards so the RST and Poly SpredR's are used quite a bit in doing my bird hunting.

The RST and Poly shells work perfectly especially out of my 16 gauge L.C. Smith and Best German double guns. Real glad RST developed these shells, I have not had to roll my own sense RST put them on the market. We usually order a couple mixed case of RST and Poly shells from Lion Country Supply each year, for all our different gauge guns.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Ordered more Poly shells this past season the RST were slow being made.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:44 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Brewster, Haven't pondered how long it takes for a load of 5's or myself to hit bottom, but I do know how long it takes a dead bird to hit! It's not a brief descent.

Dave, 30-42 yards on Mearns...with spreaders? I think I detect a typo! Perhaps 10-22 yards?

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