16ga.com ~ View topic

Gentlemen,

Here is the way I look at 50 yard shots on Pheasant, or even on Grouse which is a lot easier to kill. Do I really need the bird that badly to take that kind of a low percentage shot. Granted a well trained Munsterlander dog will recover the bird 95% of the time. However to me, I want a higher percentage shot. Fair chase to me is part of shooting flying, if the bird escapes my dog to a distance of 50 yards it gets its freedom. For me there is really no need to take 50 plus yard shot on a Pheasant. Other sportsman who like to shoot high flyers on driven shoots do this all the time, me as an upland hunter, I seldom if ever take shots at a Pheasant 50 yards and out. The way I was raised there are lots of Pheasant, and fair chase is a major part of our family gunning tradition.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Everyone has their own abilities, experiences and their own beliefs.

I think on this one we will have to agree to disagree.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

I suppose I will weigh in on this debate, since spending time with "long flushing" birds is what I have done on a regular basis for over 30 years.

Good dog? Need the bird? Etc. Etc. All are valid view points. Personally, I really like to use my open choked 2 1/2" 16 anytime I can, and did so about half the time last season. Come mid season, I passed up a number of shots and kept hunting until I was rewarded for patience, which just translated into more good time spent with nature. However when birds got seriously wised up, the story changed. Yes I did still use my little Cogswell during late winter, but not often and mostly where birds seldom see people.

50 yard shots? Well, they can be the difference between a day of bird watching and a frustrated dog (no bird to retrieve when no shot is fired), or a complete hunt. Yes, I came out and said it, "complete". Let's face it, shooting a bird or two is part of the experience and there is nothing wrong with desiring to enjoy all facets of the hunt. That is what makes it such a rich tapestry of events. Prairie birds, especially pressured pheasants or grouse, require we step up our game when needed and I must say it is very satisfying to deal with these difficult cases. I don't want an easy hunt every time I head out. A little challenge is good too.

So what do I use for 50 yards? The Fox 16 with loads that have proven themselves beyond any doubt, or one of my 12 ga. guns with loads that also deliver the goods on the pattern board and in the field. I know they will do the job every time I do mine...but I have done the research and verification that gives me this confidence rather than buying into marketing hype and hoping for the best.

With the right equipment and experience, 50 yards is not a big deal. First, one must learn to shoot effectively at extended ranges and that is the real bugger. It doesn't come easily and finding good ways to practice can be difficult. Trap fields can only do so much. A friend with a hand trap who is trying to make you miss (you don't get to call PULL! either), can really be great for this, as can high volume crow shooting.

It comes down to knowing your limits, just like motorcycle racing, rock climbing, or any other highly skilled pursuit. The best advice I can give is to work within your comfort zone and grow from there.

I could also say to avoid long shots on your "bad" shooting days, and it's a good idea. But I can also say from experience that on those days when a shooter unravels, crippled birds happen at 20 yards as often as they do at 40. Thus your dog is still #1 in the bird harvesting part of the equation, even more so when a winged rooster grabs 6th gear in the tall grass.

Challenge is best left to clays, for me it appears need said, but challenging itself happens for reasons well beyond yardage....and, well beyond the short grass and into the alders.
We all have experienced challenging shots, passed on them and made them; taken them and kicked ourself.
Never tho has challenge been a reason, for me, in being there...others will differ even tho they see the same sunrise type elements as I.

Passing on a challenge with live birds can, a wee bit, define us and, can set an important consideration for those new to the activity.
New in thinking that a challenge complete can be bought..."just do the math" and dogs, are not in every scenario afield.
Which was my point....pitchers & ears.
Not that the Digweeds amongst us can not deliver.

Complete...well, as noted earlier, we will have to agree to disagree.
For, a complete day afield is not defined by killing a bird or even taking a good picture, for this hilljack.
Maybe it was 57 years ago when I squinted my eye and kilt 'em but change is indeed good in some situations.
Actually, I suspect "well, I got one, at least" is not really a centerpoint for anyone on this message board....do that math.

I do know my dogs will give opinions no matter the venue, distance or outcome and have.
I also know that frustration is alien to their make-up and their own genetic reasons for finding joy in being there.
I do not believe they allow frustration, embarrassment or a flat pouch to rule them.
Again proving the wisdom of birddogs.

I'm done....point expressed for...thought greater than our own situation...or for...ignoring.

I know what Dave is saying - grouse can go from wide open to gone in a second ! Can't always do longer . Funniest deal ever was walking up through the valley with the Golden , a bird crosses in the bottom wide open . Shot looked good , but bird was in the canopy instantly ! Down we go , DEAD BIRD SONNY ! He wanders around , we get to a little pool in the creek and he lays down ! WTH dog !? Get him up . He rolls over , reaches into a crack in the rocks , grabs the bird and drops it in the water - LEAVE ME ALONE ! Original shot was great - would have never found that bird . (maybe a 25yd shot originally ) Farthur would have been bad . Now , 50 yds on the prairie - good to go !

Guest

Last year I took a challenging shot at a wood duck. I had been shooting my BSS all summer and it had been performing very well for me both on the sporting clays range and in the marsh. After a long lull in the shooting pair of woodies glided through just at the ragged edge of range, probably a little too far, and I thought why not, and took the shot. There was a delayed reaction and one of the birds started failing, obviously hit, wings off-beat, and the trajectory was a slow sink. The other duck was literally trying to keep its partner in the air, flying wildly around it, lifting it, neck turned right at the hit duck, chattering loudly, never seen anything quite like it. They veered off and down, and way beyond the railroad tracks where I couldn't make a recovery. I know, shit happens hunting, it’s happened before, but that one hurt. There I stood holding my empty gun, just turned 61, realizing I didn’t have to take the shot, and I felt like a very large A-hole. It stuck with me. I mentioned it to my best friend and longtime hunting partner the next day, and after a moment he said, “You know, that’s why have always hunted with you. Things like that bother you.”

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Here is my take on long birds.

If a bird gets up at 30 yards going straight away and I can't see it's head. I put the gun down and continue to hunt.

If a bird gets up at 30 yards and shows it's head.....that bird is going to be shot at.

Now I am sure some of you are thinking 30 yards away? That means the dog didn't hold the bird. BS, the dog held the bird(s) but especially late season birds aren't waiting around for someone to waddle up and boot them out of cover. If your dog goes on point you better get your butt over there NOW, especially late season roosters. Those birds knew you were coming before you got to within 1/4 mile of them. They are running and when the dog pinned them they are more than ready to take flight, especially when the wind is blowing.

Hunting wild birds has changed tremendously since I first came out to the midwest in 1993. What used to be flushes of 30, 40, 50 birds is no longer the norm. What that means is the birds that have survived are a lot more wary and a lot fewer birds try to sneak off and hold. When one goes they all go, except on rare occasions.

I remember a dog going on point and the others you were hunting with would all get into position before you moved forward to flush the birds.....nice memory but no longer reality. If that happens now, you are extremely fortunate or you are hunting on a game preserve with the bird population heavily augmented with pen raised birds.

Hunting wild pheasants now........it ain't your fathers Oldsmobile. If you are thinking it is all 10 yard flushes and 20 - 25 yard shots.....nope this is 2021, not 1974. The game has changed.

Guest

No doubt about that, Mark. If my Draht is getting birdy I'm closing the gap from the getgo. The majority of the time educated roosters just are not going to hold.

Well, thought I was done but the....BS, waddle and if you think...comments were certainly uncalled for attitude.

I do believe that many here understand wild pheasant hunting today, tho group hunting is not my thing and I defer to others.....it would be a mistake to think otherwise.
That would also clearly involve understanding the reality of birddogs and pheasant points.

However, it is good to note that 30 is the new 50. Very Happy

Make it a good day.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 754 Location: Mn.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

I fear that today Nash Buckingham would be branded a sky buster or worse...and he didn't have ammunition as good as we do now.

WyoChukar,

Nash in one of his letters to his good friend actually says there were shots that he never should have taken, while Duck hunting especially when he was a young man. However Nash was also a great Quail hunter, and you never see any thing written about him taking 50 yard shot at a Quail or any other upland bird.

I have to admit I have taken many shots at incoming Wood Ducks, some exceeding 50 yards, when the Ducks were in coming. IMO this is perfectly acceptable, especially if you have a good dog to retrieve the Ducks if they are not killed out right. IMO in no way is this the same as when gunning upland birds.

I do realize the wild Pheasants out west spook a lot easier than when I was young. However in my last trip to Montana to hunt wild Pheasants, I still never took a shot at a Pheasant 50 yards and out, I relied on my Ryman & Small Munsterlander gun dogs to set the birds up for gunning, most times inside 40 yards.

I still see little reason for gunning any upland bird at over 50 yards except maybe Sharp Tail Grouse late in the season, when even the dogs can not get within 45 yards of the birds, before they take flight.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 196

Thanks for all the great info.Checked with RST but out of stock on the 1 ounce loads but was impressed that their prices were about the same as last year.

Aurelio,

Give Lion Country Supply a call they may have some 1 0z RST shells left in their inventory. If not they probably have some Poly shells you can substitute, I use them both by the case, especially the SpredR's.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man