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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:24 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern California

You can argue convincingly that Browning has done more to sustain or revive interest in the 16 gauge than any other arms dealer with its reintroduction of the “Sweet 16” along with the annual release of limited quantities of O/U 16 gauges such as this year’s run of a redesigned White Lightning Citori.

I was discussing this recently with a hunting shop owner who told me Browning’s biggest mistake was not to partner with an ammo company to produce a new or expanded line of 16 gauge ammo for its guns.

Browning itself sells some very limited 16 gauge shells, none of which I’ve ever seen in real life. An expanded offering of 16 gauge ammo in both lead and nontoxic/waterfowl would greatly help the sale of its 16 gauges, especially its newish Sweet 16, this shop owner maintains. The failure to introduce a corresponding and widely available line of 16 gauge ammo hurts its own16 gauge gun offerings and a wider embrace of the 16. Thoughts?
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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

Perhaps they have done a good job with keeping the 16 alive with the citori. The new sweet 16 is cheap looking, not a browning in my mind. Not even close to the real auto 5. I really don’t think browning cares about ammo sales, when they can sell guns with much more profit. I have shot some of the browning shells, nothing great, and according to browning not made to reload. That puts them out for me. I’m sure you could reload, but with cheddite, federal and Rio out there, don’t think they would sell much.
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df
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota

Interesting thought, Brownings ignoring the ammo market. In my opinion, the lack of overall popularity goes beyond ammo availability. That’s an opinion. Another opinion is that Ive owned both Sweet 16s, the original and the current production. I’ll take the current production all day.
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nj gsp
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 437
Location: WI

Browning is the only company that produces a 16 gauge target load, although if you poke around on the web you will find plenty of unfavorable reviews, mostly related to poor shot quality.

Federal still produces steel loads, and my experience with these many, many years ago is they kill ducks, and when it's very cold out the crimps blew off the end of the shell but like I said that was a long time ago and probably just a bad lot of polymer. It happens.

Options are out there for ammo and guns, including some very nice new firearms from several manufacturers. I do have a new Sweet 16 and it's a fine gun; a sleeker and lightweight version of the original A5. I'm more of a doubles guy which is why I have two 16 gauge Citoris, but the new Sweet 16 A5 a lovely autoloader nevertheless.

The 16 gauge has always been a niche market, and there's little return on any gun or ammunition maker ramping up marketing and production without a huge increase in demand. This dead horse has been flogged for a very long time.

Maybe we need a hit movie to feature a 16 gauge, to do for the 16 what "A River Runs Through It" did for flyfishing...
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:41 am  Reply with quote
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I believe Fiocchi USA makes some 16 gauge target ammo. I'm on the hook for like three cases of 7 1/2 shot from the aforementioned shop owner when the ammo shipment comes in.
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:48 am  Reply with quote
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Would any rifle maker roll out a new niche caliber or revive an old niche caliber without a plentiful supply of ammo on the market? I think not.

It's amazing to me how easy it is to find 28 gauge ammo everywhere these days -- compared to 16 gauge ammo -- including in all sorts of nontoxic options and in waterfowl configurations. All kinds of new 28 gauges coming onto the market as well.
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chilly460
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:08 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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I’m not sure how much more they’re supposed to do, they produce target and hunting ammo in their own line. Many times it’s the only 16ga available locally.

I’ve owned vintage A5s and the new version and I’ll take the new gun as the preferred shooter any day.
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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
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Sporting Dave: Winchester just done it not to long ago. The 6.8 western. I have yet to see any of that local or online. I’m sure someone has it, but I haven’t seen it.
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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
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Chilly: did you grow up with the auto 5? The reliability isn’t there, as of yet. If your new A5 is still going in 100 years plus.
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XJ1996
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Jul 2016
Posts: 5
Location: NC

The new Sweet 16 vs. the old. I'll gladly take the new one. No it's not of the same level of workmanship and machining, I'll never argue that. That said the new Sweet is a 6# loaded, great handling, pleasant to shoot pheasant whacker! Shoot RG, I'll be lucky, maybe, to last another 10 years, not worried about a hundred!

October's just ahead!
XJ
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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:14 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
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If Browning (or anyone else) were interested in getting their own label on ammo for sale here in the US, it wouldn't be as hard as it might seem. It would, however, come down to dollars. And they seem to be making enough with their guns. At least when you factor in the time and trouble of going wider by adding shotgun ammo to their product line.

Recall when Cabela's dropped the Herter's ammo - their store brand - loaded by Cheddite. That was perhaps the ideal 16 ga ammo (and the other gauges weren't too shabby, either). Good ammo, reloadable hulls, decent price, reliable supply.

Recall also, there were folks from this site who had some communications with the people at Cheddite about their continuing the supply of those shells.

Recall further that those communications revealed the people at Cheddite were both shocked and dismayed Cabela's had dropped their contract and (more importantly for this post) wanted someone, anyone responsible, to be the US end of the supply chain for their ammo.

No one here picked up that opportunity (at least AFAIK).

You would think someone who wanted to get their name on shells could pick up that availability from Cheddite and get their shells made and imported. The problem would then remain of getting the shells on the shelves where consumers could get at them. Cabela's could do that because they owned the shelves. Walmart and other retailers - do you think they give away shelf space to brands they don't own? (If you do, think again.)

It would come down to making a profit on buying shells from the manufacturer, the cost of importing, the costs of customs and shipping, of establishing a distribution system here, of selling them to big box retailers, of "buying" (in cash or in kind) space on shelves, and of meeting the many regulatory and security expenses. (D'ya think that today, flats of shotgun shells might be a popular item for thieves?) I had a discussion with a home-office employee of Cabela's whose job it was to, as he described it "get ammunition into difficult jurisdictions". Gotta sell a lot of shells to make back that guy's salary....

Dollars and cents, friends.

_________________
“A man’s rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.”
Frederick Douglass, November 15, 1867, speech in Williamsport, Pa.
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Citori_16
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:11 pm  Reply with quote
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My opinion is that the pheasant, grouse, quail, cottontail and squirrel don't hold the interest or fame of the magazine cover trophy buck.

No amount of new ammo or gun is going to change the fate until the popularity of upland game hunting becomes popular like it was back at the turn of the 20th Century.
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Swampy16
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 453
Location: New Jersey

The original Sweet 16 is a well made gun but it’s a fence post/club compared to the new one. I’m not knocking it but to say the new one is anything short of impressive is a bit of a stretch. It was also a ballsy move coming out with a 16 gauge auto. It does appear to have been a success however. As far as ammo I feel I’m seeing more 16 gauge ammo on shelves now than ever before, thank goodness. Hopefully this trend continues. I think a heavier 16 gauge is the perfect option for recoil sensitive shooters, small framed individuals, and lady’s who want to get serious in the clay sports. It’s a better option than a 20. This is where I think they should campaign. Maybe a lady’s 16 gauge o/u clays gun event . Syren has seen quite a bit of success.
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Bill K
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 253
Location: North Shore of Boston

To Swampy16

RE vintage Sweet 16 vs the new Sweet 16 - I agree with you completely !

I’m lucky enough to own both, and I like them both. I like carrying the new one however, my friend (who also happens to be my #1 hunting buddy) fervently prefers the vintage Sweet 16 and repeatedly says I should sell my newer one - that’s a problem I can live with.

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Bill K
North of Boston
Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Darne R10 1962
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Bill K,

As you probably have figured out my 16 gauge L.C. Smith guns are my favorites, glad to see you like your Browning guns so much. There is one 16 gauge gun I do not own, that I would really like to acquire. It's the Westley Richards DropLock 16 gauge, with DT, and 28" barrels. The engineering on these particular guns is just incredible and they last for ever. I would purchase a 2nd set of DropLock trigger engineering to pass on down thru the family, with the gun. So few of these 16 guns were actually produced that when I finally got to carry my good friend Galens gun, and actually see the engineering in real life, I was amazed that it was invented before 1900. The hinged trap door on the gun was invented in the early 1900's and watching Galen slip the jeweled trigger engineering out of the Westley Richards double gun, won me over totally. The highly polished Drop Lock DT was some of the finest jeweled metal I have ever seen, every bit as nice as my #5 L.C. Smith Side Lock internal parts, I have never seen this quality on any other guns. My Browning 28/20 Combo gun is just fantastic, however I believe I will take the Westley Richards 16 gauge DropLock over it.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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