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Brewster11
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

I just submitted a BPI order for SG16S wads for my 2 1/2” loads. Great product and price but a little blurb about back orders popped up on the web page order confirmation form. Hopefully it was referring to some other widgets in the order and not the wads. We’ll see what happens. I’m down to my last 100, probably waited too long to reorder.

Also, has anyone come up with a good replacement equivalent for 800-X powder, now discontinued? Please don’t say Longshot because that stuff has been nothing but a headache, figuratively and literally, for my 16ga loadings.

TIA
B.
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putz463
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:35 am  Reply with quote
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Location: West MI

With not knowing what you're using the 800x for, assuming heavy field stuff, seems as though Herco or Bluedot would fill the niche. I know both of those meter better than the 800x.

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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

Try Hs7 or 571. Both the same. I must agree with Brewster on longshot. Been a nightmare for me. I stay far away from that stuff.
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

Try Hs7 or 571. Both the same. I must agree with Brewster on longshot. Been a nightmare for me. I stay far away from that stuff.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I believe that 572 is the powder you might want.

As far as Longshot goes, I am not sure I understand what the problem is. It has always worked fine in heavier loads as in 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz. Even some buffered loads.

I do agree though that 800-X is/was a nice fit for the 16 gauge. First SR7625 went away and now 800-X. I miss them both.

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Purple16
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 283
Location: Idaho & South Dakota

I have loaded my 2.5" hunting shells with Win 572 recently using the BP wads and 1oz lead. The data is very favorable for my use in older guns.

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Stx4wheeler
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Jan 2021
Posts: 89
Location: Florida

For hunting loads I’m using blue dot, imr blue, and longshot. I kinda feel your pain on longshot but I am slowly coming around as I have 4 pounds of it to burn through. I prefer the blue’s to longshot as they meter a little better and don’t want to stick to all the plastic parts in my loader if left in there for a couple days. They also are quieter and seem a little less punchy on the shoulder given loads with similar ft/s.

I have found longshot to be really great in some 2 1/2” 20 gauge very low recoil loads I’m playing with it using 11/16, 5/8, and 1/2 oz payloads to essentially make my 410 useless as they pattern better and have lower recoil for the kiddo and wife to shoot. They are still very loud and sound more like a 22 than shotgun.

Isn’t 572 very similar to longshot in size? If so it would probably be good for 2 1/2” shell loads since it’s a very dense powder.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Longshot is great...except it leaks like water. I pre flare my WAA16 style wads and it solved the constant blooper problems with shells carried in my pockets.

With the unpardonable demise of 800-X, Herco is a good candidate if you are not wanting something as slow as blue dot or STEEL.

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Quote:
Herco is a good candidate if you are not wanting something as slow as blue dot or STEEL.


I just want something exactly like 800-X. It delivered an ideal combination of good velocity and moderate pressure for 1 oz loads, and fits perfectly in 2 1/2” hulls.

Importantly, 800-X also responds to charge adjustments in a very linear manner, i.e., a small increase in charge produces a correspondingly small increase in velocity and pressure, unlike Longshot where a small increase in charge can produce an unpredictably large unwanted increase in pressure, velocity, muzzle blast, etc.

It works the other way as well with 800-X. The other day I decided I needed a milder load for skeet. I dropped back one bushing on the MEC, and just like that, the velocity dropped about 35 FPS with less recoil and more even patterns. How good is that?

This characteristic of 800-X allowed me to tune loads for a wide range of applications, whether for upland game, waterfowl, clay targets, or whatever. Maybe this is why 800-X worked so well. But it took a lot of time and effort. Hopefully we won’t have to go through this all over again to find another good all purpose 16 ga powder.

V/ R
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kgb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:16 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Nebraska

WyoChukar wrote:
Longshot is great...except it leaks like water. I pre flare my WAA16 style wads and it solved the constant blooper problems with shells carried in my pockets.

With the unpardonable demise of 800-X, Herco is a good candidate if you are not wanting something as slow as blue dot or STEEL.


I have read the many loud lamentations about powder migration issues, this is the first I've read of a solution! What's the technique to pre-flare wads?

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:19 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

Is there any data out there that shows the linearity or lack thereof for Longshot? I mean real data - i.e. numbers; e.g. more than two or three points to show a trend - in a controlled set-up that shows Longshot is "different". Actually, is there such data for any of the powders out there. There has to be. MSM2019, could you chime in? You've probably had as much experience generating real data as anyone here. I suspect you could enlighten us.

I'm not trying to twist anyone's tail on Longshot or 800-X or anything else. Rather, I like to stay, as much as possible, out of the speculative world and into the facts, as I suspect others might also. I'm not wild about one powder or another.

Me?? I read a lot of published load data and all the test data I can find. In rare cases, I have devised loads by inspection of and extrapolation from a lot of published data, and that has worked quite well for me. I load a wide range of shotshell gauges, and use a wide variety of powders. I probably have at least ten different powders for shotshells, and I've reduced that count significantly over the last few years. In the 16 tend to use a lot of Unique/Universal/20-28 for 1 oz. loads. I don't have a lot of use for 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz loads, but the powder choices for those are pretty obvious and common from the load data out there. For 7/8 ounce loads, I tend to go for Green Dot and International, but I don't shoot a lot of those either.

So far, I can't see that the choices available today really restrict me, whether I load the 16 with 5/8 ounces or 1 3/8 or anywhere in between. I do lament the passage of some powders, but I understand the manufacturers' desires to cover the range of the market with fewer products. Only markets will provide us with choices. Sometimes one finds himself not to be part of a current market. Though the 16 is a bit of an aficionado's game, I don't think we're even close to being "out of the market" with the 16 gauge and the parts and pieces necessary to its enjoyment.
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double vision
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:31 am  Reply with quote
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Tony, I have been happy with Green Dot, Int. Clays, and Unique and they serve a target-shooting bird hunter just fine, especially for the basics of 7/8 and 1 oz. loads. Universal is also useful. I also see a lot of useful Longshot data, but strangely I haven't used that much of it.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

So if I get this right, folks are trying to use Longshot for 1 oz. 16 ga. loads? With the expectation that it will react the same as a different powder with a faster burn rate.

Not going to happen. Longshot was made for heavier loads with higher velocities. On the burn rate charts it is listed as slower than Blue Dot. 800-X is listed after Herco but before Blue Dot. I realize that burn rate charts aren't gospel, but the difference between 800-X and Longshot is substantial.

When you make Longshot work, it is very compliant. When you put it behind a 16 gauge 1 oz. load, it may or may not behave the way you want it to.

Most powders, suitable for shotshells work best when they are producing 10,000 PSI. That is what they are designed to do.

Go look at the Hodgdon website. Peruse the Longshot data for 1 oz. 16 gauge loads, using Federal and Winchester hulls. It starts with a velocity of 1300 FPS @ 8,400 PSI. The Remington hull starts at 1250 FPS. Using lots of Longshot in all 3 hulls.......that tells you they are adding powder to produce pressure, because the payload isn't making the powder work.....it is just loafing along. Something to understand is that just because there is data for a load does not mean it is a great load.

IMHO, if you want two good solid powders for 1 oz. 16 ga. loads they are Universal and Unique. Those are the best powders for 1 oz. loads in the 16 if you want velocities from 1200 to 1300 FPS or so.

Good loads are built using components that fit in the hull for a good crimp without adding a bunch of stuff to build wad column and components that produce consistent ballistics. If you want consistent ballistics you need to match the powder to the task. Yes Yes Yes I know there are exceptions, but if you want good loads you use the fastest burning powder to get the velocity that you are looking for and keeping the pressure in the area of 10,000 PSI and higher.

As far as a powder that duplicates 800-X, forget it. 800-X is a very unique powder. It has some characteristics that make it a very good cold weather powder. It is also a very primer sensitive powder that you can use to your advantage.

I am NOT a fan of "low pressure" loads. I don't believe in them and I believe a lot of folks are using them for no good reason.

I am sure some of this is not going to go over well, but I am trying to save folks time and money.

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Stx4wheeler
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:59 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Jan 2021
Posts: 89
Location: Florida

kgb wrote:
WyoChukar wrote:
Longshot is great...except it leaks like water. I pre flare my WAA16 style wads and it solved the constant blooper problems with shells carried in my pockets.

With the unpardonable demise of 800-X, Herco is a good candidate if you are not wanting something as slow as blue dot or STEEL.


I have read the many loud lamentations about powder migration issues, this is the first I've read of a solution! What's the technique to pre-flare wads?


I have done it occasionally with som 20 gauge and 16 gauge recipes using the claybuster clone wads. I take a shotgun shell one size larger than the gauge wad I’m using and simply press the rim of the shell into the powder cup and rotate it around 2-3 times. The rim of the larger hull is used at about a 70 degree angle to the bottom of the powder cup. You will need to apply a decent amount of force to it.

I have also read on this forum about people soaking the wads in hot water then using a similar process to what I described above. While I have tried this and it works a little better than the first to get a wider flare I’m not sure it worth the added time.

To be honest I’m not sure either method is worth the time vs using a better fitting wad and I only utilize it on small batches of shells.
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:42 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

[quote="kgb"]
WyoChukar wrote:
Longshot is great...except it leaks like water. I pre flare my WAA16 style wads and it solved the constant blooper problems with shells carried in my pockets.

With the unpardonable demise of 800-X, Herco is a good candidate if you are not wanting something as slow as blue dot or STEEL.


I have read the many loud lamentations about powder migration issues, this is the first I've read of a solution! What's the technique to pre-flare wads?[/quote

Check with a fellow on here name Tim. I sent him pictures and the process how I eliminate the powder creep with claybuster wad. Very simple, quick and the flare stays on the powder cup. Bill
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