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Pbking51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2021
Posts: 81

Good morning, I finally received my notification that my account was active last night and I have been eager to make this post!

My quick 16ga story...
I have a large amount of guns from over the years going to auctions and likewise have been reloading for metallic cartridges for 12 years..presently I load for 42 calibers that I own rifles and pistols in. I mostly hunt in the woods of northeast Pennsylvania as well as some open fields in farm country. Aside from turkey, I might go out 2-3 times a year for pheasants and rabbit. But I always am a consistent 23-25 shot at 5 stand and a few years ago got addicted to sporting clays. I never reloaded for 12 and 20 as I was buying boxes of the stuff for about $5 a box and only shooting about 500-1000 shells a year. I've had sxs's and 16s over the years but never got around to shooting them. Back in July I tool out a 16ga AYA sxs from the 1950s and shot a round of 5 stand. I have about 10 boxes of shells but only 1 was a target load...remingtons from probably the 70's. I ended up shooting 24 straight but somewhere in the middle one primer did not go off and unfortunately another pull of the trigger on the 25th shot didn't do anything.

However, my take away was that I love the sxs with the fat forend and I love the lightness of the 16 guage and how I absolutely was quick to dust almost every bird like I know what I'm doing, haha.

I quickly searched the communities in which I belong for a used 16ga press and have found a 600 jr mark5 about 3 hours away that I will probably be buying as part of a package deal with some hulls wads and a 20, 12, and 410 press plus a sizemaster with 12/16/20 ga dies and a few chargebars and 20 bushings. From my auction days I did accumulate about 8 bags of 8 and 7 1/2 shot and just about the only powder I can find on shelves is green dot.

I quickly called bpi and order 500 primed chedit hulls, 500 field comander wads, 500 sg16 sporting wads, and the bp 16 ga manual. My hope is that I can use these components as well as the shot I have and the 2lbs of greendot I bought to load the 500 shells close to the old remingtons I did well with.

It looks like 20gn of greendot should get me to 1300fps with 1oz of shot. It looks like universal is what I need for 7/8 loads. As I have a good amount of factory hunting ammo, I just plan on loading for clays at this time.

Any tops, suggestions, or sage advice from the group?
Components I ordered were purely based on the recommendations of the gentleman at BPI who was kind enough to assist me. Anything else I should've got?

Thoughts on the aizemaster and mec 600 mark5 as I can utilize either press to load?
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Pbking51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2021
Posts: 81

Sorry for this afterthought, but I also have the following powders available. Until I get some other manuals to reference if anyone knows any good loads

700x 5-6lbs
Clays
Blue dot
Accurate no 5, 7
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df
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:04 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota

I use a sizemaster for 16 ga and three other gauges. They work great.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:41 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Pbking51,

Welcome to the best forum on the internet.

A correction if I may.

20 grains of Universal will get you 1300 FPS +/- using 1 oz. of lead shot, depending on the other components. Universal and Unique match up very nicely to many 1 oz. loads for the 16.

Green Dot is a very good match for 7/8 oz. loads in the 16.

20 grains of Green Dot behind 1 oz. of shot with any component combination in 16 gauge will produce chamber pressures over 11,500 PSI SAAMI MAP. You probably don't want to expose your shotguns (new or old) to that amount of chamber pressure. You can use Green Dot for 1 oz. loads in the 16 gauge, but not 20.0 grains. I am going to guess that 17.0 - 18.0 grains would be about max. As far as I know there isn't much tested data for Green Dot for 1 oz. loads out there. There is older data that shows 19.0 grains of Green Dot but.......

If any members have tested Green Dot 1 oz. loads please chime in.


As far as BPI data manuals.......I believe I would find a better source for 16 gauge reloading data. I have one of their recent 16 ga. manuals......not good. Why? Some loads do not fit, some have added components that aren't or shouldn't be needed, some are ballistically optimistic. That is about as nice as I can be about the subject.

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16'er
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:26 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1393
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia

Welcome to the wonderful world of the sixteen, and our little Society here!

As far as loads go, 20grns GDot does sound a bit hot.

Since you’re setting up to load, I’d encourage you to load a couple of boxes of 7/8oz loads @~1150fps and see how they perform for you. Get a copy of the spreadsheet from the link at the top of the page. I think it’s hosted on 24hrcampfire now iirc.

Best wishes in all your shotgunning endeavors!
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Pbking51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2021
Posts: 81

Thank you for the warm welcome. I doubled checked that manual and wow. They have pressure numbers high, but not as low as you have advised. Should I just tone down charges to start like when reloading a new metallic caliber?

If I could figure out how to attach a picture I would share, but it is the 11th edition of their manual. Page 67. 18gn and 20gn loads with sg16s wads and 19 and 20 with field comander for green dot and 1oz loads

My main concern and curiosity piece of shotshell reloading is the wad+hull combination. I am afraid to have to buy a certain type of wad based on hulls or have components I can't use because of a certain powder is out of stock.

With metallic reloading I choose the weight bullet I want to shoot and add a powder and then experiment with charge weights.

The way I understand it with shotshell is
Start with weight of shot, then I'm limited to a certain wad I can use , but then only certain hulls can be used based off the wad and somehow powder comes in the mix? I imagine the way the wad fits the hull has an impact on the powder options?

Maybe I just need a more reputable manual but because chedite hulls were available I felt like the BPI manual was the only data I'd find using Chedite hulls. I guess what I should ask is "Are chedite hulls comparable to federal or another brand? And how about the wads I bought?[/img]
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16'er
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:22 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1393
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia

Every component of a load factors in the resulting pressure for that load. There are some things you can swap with negligible effects. In 16ga, the straight wall hulls are fairly interchangeable, federal, Winchester (current production), fiocchi, and cheddite are not going to make much difference in the resulting load pressure.

Primers will effect pressure and somewhat velocity, so care should be used if considering a substitution. http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

If a load is up against the pressure limit as listed, Don’t fiddle with any substitutions.
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Byron Whitlock
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:28 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Oswego, Kansas

Welcome to the 16ga society. Some of the best data available for 16ga right now is available on the hodgdon powder website. They have many hulls listed and many wads.

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Pbking51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2021
Posts: 81

Thanks for the clarification. I have been browsing all the posts in between yardwork and watching my daughter.

Next question...and sorry if there's a sticky or post about this I haven't read yet...what's the best way to chronograph a shotgun? I have a caldwell shoot through model with the sun shades on top.
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double vision
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Welcome!

I'd just follow the instruction. I have an older Chrony and they instruct you to shoot 5 feet from the screens. I do try to shoot at 3 feet because I believe it gives velocities closer to what the ammo and reloading companies provide. Maybe MSM2019 will come along and share what he knows about it. He worked for Precision Reloading if I remember correctly.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Pbking51,

"I doubled checked that manual and wow. They have pressure numbers high, but not as low as you have advised. Should I just tone down charges to start like when reloading a new metallic caliber?"

So a few comments.....I am not advising on the pressure numbers. 11,500 PSI is the Maximum Average Pressure set by SAAMI and is industry standard. SAAMI sets pressure figures for all new ammunition made in the USA. This isn't my idea or opinion, that number is fact. GOOD reloading data will adhere to that 11,500 PSI MAP. Check out Hodgdon, Alliant and a Lyman manual, not one 16 gauge load will be listed with a chamber pressure that exceeds 11,500 PSI.

You cannot use the centerfire reloading idea of backing off the powder charge and then working up the load, with shotshells. The simple reason is that there are no signs of overpressure on a shotshell. Flattened primers in a shotshell mean nothing. You cannot measure the metal head for over expansion. You should (you can do what you want but....) use loading data just the way it is published.

The wads you have purchased will work in any 16 ga. hull currently made. They maybe a bit tight in the Remington hulls, but there is data out there for that combination.

I have questions concerning loading data from BPI, but for the most part the products they sell are good quality, especially the wads you have purchased. Those wads are made by Gualandi (SG16) and the Bascheri & Pellagri (Z16). You will see both wads used by many companies in new ammo, mostly in ammo made outside the US.

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Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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Pbking51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2021
Posts: 81

Thank you for you time and advice. I by no means want to hotrod any shotgun load. 1200-1250 factory loads have treated me very well in the past.
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df
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota

I also bought the BPI 16 ga manual. I found the stack heights way off and lots of the “loads” they list as unusable. I tossed my manual. I’ve found the Lyman shotgun loading manuals to be very useful.
Welcome to this forum.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

With that much 700-X, I would be looking to use it for target loads. I can share some 3/4 oz. and 7/8 oz. data for 700-X if you would like.

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Pbking51
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2021
Posts: 81

WyoChukar wrote:
With that much 700-X, I would be looking to use it for target loads. I can share some 3/4 oz. and 7/8 oz. data for 700-X if you would like.


Please do! As long as my wads will work I'd be happy to have some data for powder I have an abundance of.
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