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<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  16 Gauge 2 1/2" shells getting real hard to purchase
Swampy16
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 242
Location: New Jersey

Dave, I sent you another email. Did you get it?
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 129
Location: Northern California

The lack of 2 1/2 inch shells is a complete bummer. I have two boxes left of RST Bismuth hunting loads in 16 and 20 but no target shells really with which to practice. This has been true all summer.

This is where the modern 16s come in -- for better or worse. They can digest it all from steel waterfowl loads to hot lead target loads. The ammo shortage means more field time for these newer 16s. The Fox and LC Smiths will be sitting mostly in the safe this season, unfortunately.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2095
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Swampy16,

Received your last e-mail and sent you an answer.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2095
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

SportingDays,

You're advise is definitely sound, I may have to invest in a more modern 16 gauge double gun in the near future. I was looking on line for some 16 gauge 2 3/4" shells and the shells available are pretty hot stuff.. Not something I want to shoot thru my later made L.C. Smith with the 2 3/4" Chambers on a repeat basis any way. Looks like I should have kept a couple of the more modern 16 gauge double guns, instead of getting rid of them. Got to tell ya I never thought this shell shortage would really last as long as it has.

I figured RST, Poly and Fiocchi would be pumping out new shells already.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Old colonel2
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Jun 2020
Posts: 90

PM sent

MPD
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:53 pm  Reply with quote
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Posts: 129
Location: Northern California

I love the folks at RST. They are super nice — but how can they always be out of everything you want and they advertise? Every order you place is like “Sorry, we’re out of those 8s but we can swap paper 6s for those.” I mean fine. The old guns gotta eat but c’mon. They’re loading lead for Christ’s sake. Not some rare metal. Didn’t RST just build some big new production facility? I mean the young guns at BOSS are kicking their a**. And what’s up with Polywad while we’re at it? Those shells are impossible to find. Frustrated.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2095
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Old Colonel2,

Sent you a reply to your PM, thanks much.

all the best,

Sporting Days,

RST and Poly are small independent shell companies, great to deal with, and both have high quality shells, I purchase all I ever needed for my business, of both these companies shells thru Lion Country supply, and got free shipping when I purchased by the case. When the Covid mess started, they both had employee problems and then component problems right behind, after the sickness of their employees. RST is right here in Pa where our idiot governor had the state small businesses shut down for a very long period of time.
Things are still not back to normal here in Pa as far as work employment goes, especially for small businesses. Many of our small businesses after reopening are having to close at 2 or 3 in the afternoon each day, help is at a serious premium to actually run the business.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1843
Location: Maine

Sporting Days wrote:
I love the folks at RST. They are super nice — but how can they always be out of everything you want and they advertise? Every order you place is like “Sorry, we’re out of those 8s but we can swap paper 6s for those.” I mean fine. The old guns gotta eat but c’mon. They’re loading lead for Christ’s sake. Not some rare metal. Didn’t RST just build some big new production facility? I mean the young guns at BOSS are kicking their a**. And what’s up with Polywad while we’re at it? Those shells are impossible to find. Frustrated.


I had an issue with some RSTs last fall ... a couple from a box of 2.5 inch 12 ga shells wouldn't go off in my FP Baker double. Light firing pin strikes, but shells from the same box worked just fine in the same gun's same barrel. A careful examination, aided by a steel rule and bright flashlight, showed the primers in the duds were set about .010 too deep. Just enough to not go off.

I called RST and, after a series of questions trying to place the blame on me or my gun, we got down to brass tacks. They get their hulls already primed from Cheddite. If the primers were too deeply set it was the fault of a machine in France or Italy or wherever Cheddite makes hulls. (And, I deduced, complaining would do little good.)

There lies the source - or, more precisely, a source - of the way they're currently out of just about everything. While we look at them as a prime supplier they are in reality down near the consumer end of the supply chain. Everything they get comes from some supplier elsewhere. And corona has bolluxed every part of the supply chain. Cheddite makes billions of shotgun hulls every year. RST's share of them is miniscule. I'm sure Cheddite does not mean them I'll, but they're going to take care of their larger customers first. And, in a situation where limits on personnel availability make it such that manufacturers have to choose which product lines to supply first, manufacturers will go with the popular ones first. So, 2.5 inch subgauge hulls - needing to be made on a specially set up line and making up only a tiny portion of their sales - will not get made while 2/75 inch 12 ga hulls will.

By way of example, if you find centerfire rifle/pistol ammo in the store you've most likely been able to find 5.56, .308 and 9mm Luger and not much else. That's because the manufacturers have concentrated on their most popular, most demanded products.

The same issues for which I used Cheddite hulls as an example obtain for other components, too. Shot is pretty hard to find, powder pretty much unobtainable, primers are all going into loaded ammo per the manufacturers themselves, and even wads are in short supply - no plastic.

And I haven't even touched on the problems with importing anything these days.

So, I don't fault RST for being short of supply and consequently unavailable. They can only load shells with what components they have. And if one component is missing and they have all the others, it's as good as having no components at all.
They can't make shells without all the appropriate components on hand.

Similarly, Boss can sell you shells because they have components to make them. If the time comes when their supply of components runs dry - and shooters going on a run to buy their ammo will make it happen - they will find themselves in the same boat as RST currently is. And this will continue to go on unless and until the supply chain reopens.

As for me, when 3-4 years ago no one else was buying (and LGS were going broke), I was. After 2012-14, I promised myself I wouldn't get caught short like that again. Because there surely would be another shortage in the future, sudden and unforeseen, and properly stored modern ammo doesn't go bad.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2095
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

DaveinMaine,

All good points as to why RST & Poly have no inventory at the present time. The funny thing is I am not seeing a lot of Federal, Remington, Winchester, Kent or Fiocchi shells being restocked at the stores either.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:25 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 1711
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

Both Daves , agree 100% ! The guys at the club used to always send weirder loading stuff my way . never really tossed any . Back in the last shortage , even was able to load 28ga skeet loads with Red Dot . Just less shot . They still call me cheerio , and yes DC , understand what well fitting components means . (if you got them ) Powder/shot comes in rarely but does come in . Primers are the real sticker , and many thanks to whoever posted BP having them ! Got in a midnight order and am good for a while ..... load RGL's for short loads - almost all are 25/8 " as they are . Fiber wads are still around .... A good example of how bad this is : my main guy used to work out of his barn . Dicey , but OK . Decided just before all the crap started to rent a warehouse . Was fine for less than a year and then this stated . Is almost a million in orders he can't fill . Fortunately does gunsmithing to keep going . Timing is everything !!

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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1843
Location: Maine

16ga Davis - was it you I sent the 410 wads? After I mailed them I found a handful of once-fired 410 hulls I should have included. Please advise if you're interested.

At a shoot over a year ago - like June/July last year - one of the guys, who works in the industry, was relating how Kittery Trading Post had had one of their wholesale orders (them ordering from the manufacturer, to stock the store shelves) for over $1 million of ammo returned by the manufacturer because the manufacturer couldn't fill it. Not that the manufacturer didn't want the sale - they just couldn't make enough.

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Frederick Douglass, November 15, 1867, speech in Williamsport, Pa.
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Lloyd3
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:43 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1062
Location: Denver, Colorado

[url=https://imgur.com/6OgrD5P] [/url]

Non-16s work too.

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3birddogs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 496
Location: wheeling, wv

I am an unabashed hull whore. Picked a couple hundred beautiful purple RST hulls out of the trash while shooting at the Vintagers in Pa. this week. Didnt stop there, also picked up alot of 2 1/
2" 20's and 12's. I load only 2 1/2' for my 16's these days.,
RST did have shells for sale there, picked up some short 20's for a friend.

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Carlos
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 580
Location: Victoria BC Canada

3birddogs wrote:
I am an unabashed hull whore. Picked a couple hundred beautiful purple RST hulls out of the trash while shooting at the Vintagers in Pa. this week. Didnt stop there, also picked up alot of 2 1/
2" 20's and 12's. I load only 2 1/2' for my 16's these days.,
RST did have shells for sale there, picked up some short 20's for a friend.


LIKE!
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2095
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

I can fully understand being a Hull whore especially today with the problems we are having acquiring shells for our 16 gauge double guns. Selling my MEC was not such a good idea, with our current state of shell shortages. I could be rolling my own 2 1/2" 16 gauge shells.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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